00:05
Lara Schmoisman
This is Coffee Number Five. I’m your host, Lara Schmoisman. Hi there. Welcome back to Coffee Number Five. Today we’re going to be talking about a little bit of everything. And I, you know, I know a lot of people, you know that right now. And so I love to have open conversations and to bring you experiences that really can tell you the story that not everything is perfect. Not every company is perfect. Every company goes through challenges and learning processes. But also as we have a company, we need to pivot many times like we need to pivot in our marketing strategies and not because we are doing something that is wrong, maybe some an algorithm change and we need to understand what’s going on and make changes. So today I brought with you someone super special, Corey Ways. So welcome Corey.

01:01
Corey Weiss
Thank you, Laura. Good to be here.

01:02
Lara Schmoisman
Okay. I mean Corey, you have an incredible trajectory. You work, you’re like me. You were everywhere. You are like in entertainment industry, you were at the beginnings of the digital era. You work like with Yahoo. You work in the film industry and television industry. You work also as one of the founders of ipsy. And I know that I’m forgetting a lot of things in the middle. So tell us a little more that how do you started this career? I mean, what’s your background that it look all over these places?

01:34
Corey Weiss
Yeah. Thank you. I like to say that often in our careers professionally that it’s hard work and a little bit of luck. So I’m born and raised in Southern California and naturally a lot of people migrated towards the entertainment industry being that it was in our backyards. So out of college I went to UC Santa Barbara. I started my career at Disney and I worked in home entertainment doing marketing, promotions and pr. And I worked hard and they used to joke at Disney that if you didn’t show up on Saturday, don’t bother showing up on Sunday. So it definitely was a lot of hard work went in. But there was a little bit of luck too because as I started my career, the Internet started popping up and there was opportunities to build some of the early websites for Disney.

02:29
Corey Weiss
And that’s exactly what I did. I identified an opportunity to at that time jump into what was known as new media, which now we call digital media.

02:37
Lara Schmoisman
But, and I, I remember those days.

02:41
Corey Weiss
Yeah, dates us a little bit. But it was a little bit of luck to be at Disney at that time. And I worked on live action films and I built one of the early websites for Disney for Miramax actually, and it was called Miramax Cafe.

02:57
Lara Schmoisman
Okay, let’s Remember that back then we didn’t have the technology that we have today and it wasn’t that easy to make a website like let’s Plug and Play.

03:09
Corey Weiss
Right. Yes, things were a lot different. In fact, when I first started with websites, it was on America Online or AOL of course, which now is a bit irrelevant, but that’s where the early websites were and it did take a lot of work. And the other thing that were really big back then were chat rooms and chats and it was an opportunity to leverage these new platforms and bring celebrities on to talk about films. So that’s where I really rolled up my sleeves and got involved with digital media, building some of those websites and it positioned me well for that first.com boom that happened when broadband was becoming ubiquitous and more of these tools as you referenced, were available to people. So at that point on the focus of my career was the intersection of entertainment and digital media.

04:00
Lara Schmoisman
And also let’s remember that back then was the beginning of the Internet. So we didn’t have the communications that we had today and the ways for the customer to be involved in the narrative.

04:16
Corey Weiss
Right, right. It was not, it was more, it was one to many, but it wasn’t as engaging and interactive as it is today.

04:25
Lara Schmoisman
Absolutely. So where did you go from there? How did you end up in the beauty industry?

04:31
Corey Weiss
Yeah, so winding up in the beauty industry was a bit serendipitous. So I made my way up the ladder at the studios I worked at Disney that I went to Paramount again with a focus on digital media. And in 1999, when the first real.com boom happened, as they refer to it, I was recruited out of Paramount by someone who at the time was the president of Paramount Digital Entertainment and he was starting a new website. It was called Wire Break Entertainment and we did short digital shows and films for Gen X males. And it was all lean forward interactive content. And were very much ahead of our time. In fact, were so far ahead of our time that the broadband footprint wasn’t big enough that we had a.

05:20
Corey Weiss
The company ultimately didn’t make it because there also was a bubble that burst and everyone took a step back in digital media. And then I went to. From there I went to.

05:33
Lara Schmoisman
It was. It was a very interesting time because were like our heads was ahead, we knew what was coming, but the technology wasn’t there.

05:42
Corey Weiss
Exactly, exactly. And my career really has been predicated on innovation and disruption and trying to do things different and go into territories where people have not yet gone. So I went from the studios, I, I participated in a 5 studio JV called MovieLink. I was part of the founding team there and that was the entertainment industry trying to avoid having happened to them what happened to the music industry with Napster piracy and did that for a while. I went agency side and actually when I was on the agency side I ran non traditional media for an ad agency. And at that time a woman by the name of Michelle Phan who was one of the pioneers in beauty approached me with her manager and said I’m launching videos on YouTube and within 24 hours I’m getting a million views. What do I do?

06:35
Corey Weiss
So I helped Michelle Phan monetize her content in the early days. So via my relationships with brands and agencies I helped her really be one of the pioneers in sponsored content. So I did that. I went from the ad agency to Yahoo where I ran global consumer marketing for entertainment, sports and video. And at that time Michelle came back to me and said somebody approached me about creating a business around my YouTube channel. Will you talk to them? I went and spoke with the person who at that time was one of the founders as well as the CEO of Ipsy which at the time was called my glam. And I was recruited to join along with Michelle to build what became the world’s largest beauty subscription service as well as community and the rest was history. My glam became ipsy.

07:25
Corey Weiss
I became immersed in the beauty industry while during my decade plus tenure at Ipsy I wore every hat within the company and was very fortunate that I allowed me to be a pioneer with the creator economy content. I built out a studio. I did quite a bit but that’s.

07:44
Lara Schmoisman
Amazing and it’s an incredible journey and I’m fascinated by the success of Ipsy which I @ some point I was subscribed to and but I found that I cannot have any more. It wasn’t the time that you can choose really what you want and there’s only so many eyeshadows that I can have because I don’t use eyeshadows and I don’t know why there were so many coming back then.

08:15
Corey Weiss
Well, I don’t want to jump around too much but what you just said is the exact reason why ultimately I left IPSY and started my new venture. 213 Dolly it basically taking the learnings and findings from IPSY and applying it to a new way to discover and purchase beauty products.

08:32
Lara Schmoisman
Okay, we’re going to get back to that in a minute but let’s go to the early days of ipsy, what was that value proposition that was told to you that you say, okay, this is going to be big. People are going to really subscribe to this idea. How was it sold to you?

08:52
Corey Weiss
Well, I think there was a couple things. One, I had already seen the success of creators, or at that time they were called YouTubers because that’s all there was. That was the only platform they were using. And I saw what was happening with Michelle Phan. I saw that when she would post a video on YouTube, how quickly she would accumulate a million views or more. And I also read the comments, I read the comments and saw how her fans kind of hung on to every word she said. And I saw how her fans, she could basically recommend any product and they would cling onto every word and they would go out and buy that product. And what we realized there was something called inspirational commerce.

09:29
Corey Weiss
So watching someone like Michelle Phan, who had influence and someone that could make recommendations could really impact the products that people purchased. And that’s really where the whole creator economy and this whole creator movement started and really created IPSY as a creator first organization.

09:50
Lara Schmoisman
So, but let me ask you a question with that. I, because I how that a model like IPSY works with the brands to make it affordable for the client, because we have a lot of people that they are brand owners that are listening to the podcast and they say, I want to be an ipsy. It’s easy for every brand because the numbers are big.

10:12
Corey Weiss
That right? Yes. So one thing that’s really impressive about ipsy is that when we launched the company in the first glam bag shipped In December of 2011, we shipped 7,500 glam bags. When I left the company in 2022, were shipping three and a half million bags a month.

10:32
Lara Schmoisman
That’s a big commitment for a young brand.

10:35
Corey Weiss
Right? So. Exactly. And that’s really, to answer your question, in the early months, yes, 7,500 was doable for a brand. But as we scaled and had hundreds of thousands, if not millions of subscribers, it made it difficult for brands to participate. And at that point we developed a program to help subsidize the creation of products so that brands could afford to be in the glam bag. So it really took us identifying the top brands and then helping underwrite the cost to create products to be, to participate.

11:13
Lara Schmoisman
I know, but for example, what does it mean? I mean, I understand that you created this plan and which is great, but for how much they’re going to get the brand? For how Much IPSY will pay brands for the products.

11:27
Corey Weiss
Yeah, it really varied. I mean, in the early months when it was just when the numbers were still manageable, people would donate product. And then in the later months as our numbers scaled and the minimums that people had to provide to participate, then we started to subsidize the creation of their product. But there never was a fee associated. It was a marketing channel and we never charged brands to participate.

11:55
Lara Schmoisman
That’s an incredible opportunity for brands. But since then, it probably changed the model because like what I said before, companies evolve, but you also evolve and you evolve in creating a new platform that we had Nicole before in our podcast, because I really was. I didn’t know Nicole at the time and I found this new technology fascinating. And of course I’m subscribed and able purchased from 213Delhi. And I know that this is a technology in other countries is common even I know that in South America, people are doing a lot of things, not quite this technology, but using a lot of WhatsApp to communicate. And we know also that Meta is looking into doing some transactional things with WhatsApp now. So you were ahead of the curve one more time. So why did you come up with this idea of selling by.

12:53
Lara Schmoisman
In the US Market, that’s selling products by text messaging, Right?

12:58
Corey Weiss
So again, like I said, I was always an outlier in the beauty industry, being that my colleagues were people that put on makeup every day and I didn’t. So I looked at things from the outside in and I looked at things differently. And I really studied consumer behavior. And a comment that you made earlier, which was very astute, is that the subscription model had started to become fatigued. I mean, people, there’s only so many mascaras, eyeliners, lip gloss, eyeshadow palettes that you needed. So one that was one issue. And the second was people had so many subscriptions and they forgot how many they had, they’d forget to cancel and they’d get charged every month. So we really wanted to develop something where people bought what they wanted. And we also wanted to develop a platform that wasn’t a hard sell.

13:48
Corey Weiss
It was more about a recommendation. So each week we partner with beauty creators, we partner with beauty editors, and we partner with celebrity makeup artists. So you were really using this as a way to learn about new brands and products. And we felt that we put together such compelling drops each week that you’re going to want to buy it. We didn’t have to sell you on it, but rather we could educate and inform you and as a result, you would make the sale, which is a different way and a different approach to beauty these days.

14:20
Lara Schmoisman
That’s super interesting. But how do you find out and how do you get the data of what your customer might want? Because I see the offers that you guys bring to our techs and they’re very interesting and different one to the other. So where do you get the data of what your customers might want and that’s the right price point, right?

14:43
Corey Weiss
Well, I think that it’s a great question and I think that goes back to the earliest learnings and findings I had in digital media, is using it as a feedback loop and really, you know, using an educated guess of what consumers want, but then responding quickly to their feedback and to looking at purchasing behavior to see what items they want. And that’s really what we did at 213Deli in year one was really determine what was the right price point, what were the rice, what were the right products, what were the right brands, and adjust the product market fit so that we would be delivering products that people loved. In addition, we, as you’ve seen as a subscriber and thank you for doing that. Of course we work with all the top brands and we work with, we have a focus on newness.

15:35
Corey Weiss
So we want to make sure that when you get that text, you know, you are confident that drop that’s been curated for you is the best of the best, and that those are not like last year’s products that brands are trying to get rid of, but rather these are new products that brands want to put in the hands of beauty lovers. And that’s one thing that we discovered, is that our, the people that have Signed up for 213Deli are people that really lean into beauty and want to be the first to have a new product. And we’ve been fortunate to be able to deliver that for our community because we’ve worked with brands like Vacation, Thrive, Floor, goldfat and md, to name a few, that used our platform to launch new products.

16:21
Lara Schmoisman
And how are you going to do that? Because right now I believe that you’re sending one text message per week is a try. It’s hard to keep track of everything, but I try.

16:34
Corey Weiss
And no, you do a great job.

16:36
Lara Schmoisman
Thank you. But the question is, are you planning to segment this more in understanding your customers and say, well, if this person bought these, then I may offer them this. What’s the plans of scale this platform without sending so many texts? Because you know that there are studies out There. And as an agency we offer SMS marketing and the standards, right, it’s not more than five to six text messages a month.

17:04
Corey Weiss
Right. So very good question. So there’s. I want to address it in two ways. First is really differentiating what we are versus others. So what we see happening today is SMS marketing. You go to a website, they ask for your mobile number to get 15% off or some type of discount from your purchase and then they tend to bombard you with text messages that usually drive you back to a website. We are not SMS marketing, we are SMS commerce. So the entire transaction happens on the phone. We do only text you once a week. But where we’re heading right now and very close to offering is so right, currently on Thursday at noon Pacific Standard time, everybody receives the same drop. So it’s kind of a one size fits all.

17:54
Corey Weiss
And we really have honed and modified it so that the drop is universally appealing to everyone that receives it. However, to your question, which was a great one, we are going to start with personalization. So you will respond to a quiz, answer some questions and then we could just deliver you the drops that you’re most interested in.

18:15
Lara Schmoisman
So I love that it’s all about personalization these days.

18:19
Corey Weiss
Yeah, it’s all going to be about personalization. Our conversion rates are pretty good right now, but we know that when we have personalization and you raise your hand and say, 213Dolly, just send me hair and lip products. We’ll just send you hair and lip products. Maybe someone like myself who’s interested in skincare and body care. I’ll just receive drops of skincare and body care. So the personalization will allow us to send multiple drops each week, but only targeting people that have indicated that’s the type of products they’re most interested in.

18:52
Lara Schmoisman
Let me ask you a question because you know that there are a lot of laws from sms. Are you guys having to be working with those laws too? Because this or this is in a gray area.

19:05
Corey Weiss
No, it’s the ftc, FCC you’re not messing around with. So to adhere to those laws is very strict and it quite possibly more strict than email.

19:17
Lara Schmoisman
And the challenge, it is very strict and depends for you out there that you probably, if you have a company or a brand that is sent sms, you need to be very careful because these laws are no joke and it varies from state to state.

19:34
Corey Weiss
Correct. But the interesting thing, as you probably well know and all your listeners and viewers know, is that we just came out of an election and all of our phones Regardless of where your political leanings are, received an abundance of texts from candidates and initiatives.

19:51
Lara Schmoisman
Yes, we did.

19:53
Corey Weiss
People ask me all the time how come they’re able to I opt out of these or I never signed up, how come I’m getting all these texts? And the reason is politicians being politicians, when they created the laws, they carved themselves out of it. So you might sign up for one text message from a particular party and they can share those lists with other people from the same party. And that’s why our phones are getting blown up. And that’s actually created a challenge for 213Deli, because there’s a lot of noise out there now and we need to break through the noise.

20:24
Lara Schmoisman
It happened to every brand. And I can tell you, looking at the algorithms and the analytics of the last month in sms, it suffered for everyone because people had too much.

20:38
Corey Weiss
Yeah. So it has been a challenge. But the way that we are combating that and making sure that we still have an open rate of, you know, sms. In the early days when we first launched, the company had a 98% open rate and 95% of those text messages were read within three minutes of receiving them. That data is a little bit different right now. But the reason why we’re confident that people are opening up our texts and opening them up quickly are two reasons. One, we’ve built trust and people trust that when they get that text from 213Deli, they know that not only is there something good in there, but usually there’s a special offer or gift with purchase that they’re going to want to get.

21:21
Corey Weiss
Secondly, it’s a drop model, so our drops are limited and there is, it’s a bit of an impulse purchase because if you don’t act quickly, there’s a good chance that drop will sell out before you get a chance to reply to the text.

21:37
Lara Schmoisman
Having. Using the technology, I learned two things. First of all, it’s really easy to use and it’s well done, it’s very intuitive. But also I understand that you might have a challenge in hand that is explaining people how to use this technology because you do have to put your credit card, but the first time.

21:57
Corey Weiss
Correct. So you’re very, you’re, you’re spot on there. So when you’re a first mover in a category, you bear the burden of educating people on how that category works. So SMS commerce still is relatively new and it does require educating consumers how it works. As you said, the first time you make a purchase you do need to enter your credit card. And one thing we do is that when you sign up for 213 Deli, welcome you. And then we always offer you a welcome offer where you get a, what we call a loss leader, but a drastically reduced item price. You know, the price is drastically reduced as an incentive or motivation to sign up. Because once you sign up and enter your credit card number and enter your shipping address, we then encrypt that and securely store it with your phone number.

22:52
Corey Weiss
So on subsequent drops, literally all you have to do is reply. And then we know, oh, this phone number belongs to Laura. This is her shipping address. This is her credit card information. We bill you and we ship it out the same day.

23:04
Lara Schmoisman
I know, and that’s incredible. I love that the platform offers that. But how do you generate trust the first time? How did you get to your customers? How did you spread the word?

23:17
Corey Weiss
So part of the way that we establish trust, there’s a few ways we do it. One is through our partners. So the main way that we build awareness is through creators, as I mentioned, beauty creators, beauty editors and celebrity makeup artists that have trust with their viewers. And we intentionally partner with people that we know have a reputation of being trendsetters and a reputation that their followers trust what they recommend. And that comes from the early days with Michelle Phan, that if she told you that she loves a particular mascara, people wanted to get that exact mascara. And those are the type of partners we still work with today.

24:05
Lara Schmoisman
So when you were creating, I call it my brand script. Coming from screenwriting, I call it my brand script. But you have, when you created your customer, when you were thinking about who is your first customer, I assume that you had to have in consideration people that they will adopt not only like makeup art, makeup products, that they have certain problems, but also they can be first movers and not first mover, first adapters and adapt to new technologies so that challenge and narrow your target audience.

24:45
Corey Weiss
Yes, I think, you know, definitely. I mean, we needed to be people that weren’t technology adverse, but were ones that embraced technology and relied on technology. And to that question, and to your point, our primary target are women, 35 plus. These are women that are attached to their phones, but they’re not spending two to three hours a day on Instagram or TikTok scouring for the best brands and products. They use their phones as a way to communicate with their friends, to check, to track their children. And they’re time deprived. So we know that they want to rely on a Trustworthy service like 213Deli so we can cut through the clutter and save them time ultimately.

25:30
Lara Schmoisman
So I love that. I need that.

25:33
Corey Weiss
Right, exactly. Like, so that’s why we offer them great brands, great products that are being, they’re learning about it from creators or beauty editors or celebrity makeup artists who are telling them that these products are game changers or they’re life changing or they’ll become obsessed with it.

25:50
Lara Schmoisman
Do you, do you feel. Sorry to interrupt and I have all these questions and I’m fascinated. So you feel since you launched when was that? A. A little. Yeah. So do you feel like your target audience, you were able to expand on target audience as people learn and the word most more word of mouth.

26:14
Corey Weiss
Yeah. So it’s funny you come from entertainment, right? And when in movies, you launch a movie that you want to appeal to a broad audience. You know, these tent pole films. We found too that because of some of these brands that we work with are so popular and people. And the brands that we work with, you’ll find at top retailers like Sephora or Ulta or they’re trending on social, that they do have awareness among a broad audience. And so where our primary audience might be women, 35 plus, we’re finding that everyone from the ages of, you know, 18 to 54, if you look at a broader swath or a broader demographic, are really interested in 213 Deli as well.

27:02
Lara Schmoisman
That, that’s very interesting. And you see that it’s mostly female or you feel like men also are interested in this technology because I can see it also that it could be very beneficial for busy men to just.

27:18
Corey Weiss
You’re, you’re, you’re spot on again. So when we hit that personalization, then men who might really only want skincare, hair care, maybe we can do, you know, beer, you know, beard care or various things that particularly target men will have that personalization as well. So yes, we do have male customers.

27:41
Lara Schmoisman
Currently and I’m so looking forward to see our. I’m so intrigued and I, I’m looking forward to see that.

27:50
Corey Weiss
Well, we’re very excited for it as well. And we know that will kind of be the holy grail of what we’re doing.

27:57
Lara Schmoisman
Well, I found that a lot of the technologies and I’m surprised by this that they’re trying to target Alphas, generation Alphas, millennials and Z gens. How do you plan to tackle, if you plan to tackle those generations as well?

28:17
Corey Weiss
Well, we find that they’re definitely aware of us based on the creators we work with and the brands that we work with. But the reality is that Gen X spends more money on personal care than any other demographic. In addition, they’re the ones that control the purse strings, so they have that discretionary income to spend on beauty. And the third thing is that they’re also the least fickle. We find with Gen Alpha, Gen Z millennials. They’re jumping on trends and they’re also very price sensitive. So we know that there’s a sweet spot between mass and prestige where we could really, you know, we know that there’s high conversion. So that’s one thing that we spent year one figuring out is what that price point is and what are those categories that people are most interested in.

29:10
Lara Schmoisman
That’s so interesting because lately, when I look in new technologies, every technology is really focus on young audiences. So it’s fascinating that you guys are finding your spot in other audiences that I agree with you 100% that they have for these brands that you’re working with. More, more spending, right?

29:32
Corey Weiss
Yeah, it’s interesting. I mean, I, I definitely think that Gen X is a demographic that’s overlooked by brands. There’s a, there’s like a ton of focus currently on, you know, Gen Alpha, Gen Z millennials or younger millennials. We actually, you know, kind of the older millennials as well as Gen X.

29:52
Lara Schmoisman
Well, we’re the forgotten.

29:56
Corey Weiss
Very much so. And one thing we found is, you know, people have responded really well. I mean, you take a look at our branding, you take a look at our narrative. And those like older millennials, Gen X, respond very favorably to what we’ve created.

30:15
Lara Schmoisman
Yeah, well, that’s great that you have all this data. And so how do you got on this brand awareness? You guys, in the early stages, did you work creating ads and targeting the right target audience or you were. Is only you use influencers and your partners.

30:36
Corey Weiss
Yeah. So one thing that’s important to know, note, I mean, you mentioned her name earlier. I have, I have two partners in the business. One is Nicole Collins, who was also on the founding team of IPSY with me, and the other is Jules Campasano, who also was a colleague at ipsy. And we really pride ourselves on our reputation and our network and we’ve, you know, put a lot of time and energy into the relationships that we establish. So when we launched, people were very excited for us and very curious to see what were building. And as a result, they really became almost like ambassadors for our brand and helped spread the word amongst their communities as well. So word of mouth and leveraging our networks was a big focus in the early months when we launched.

31:22
Lara Schmoisman
And this teach you guys another lesson that why in any industry you never burn bridges and you play well with others and then you’re going to have a supporting community.

31:34
Corey Weiss
Yeah, I think it’s unfortunately way overlooked because often people will step on the backs of others to climb to the top. But in my early days when I was at Disney, there was a Samuel Jackson quote that said, watch whose feet you step on today because you might be kissing their butt tomorrow. And it’s so true. You know, we are. It’s a very, it’s a very small industry and it’s very cyclical and you don’t know who that, you know, that person that’s sitting next to you. You don’t know where they’re going to be in two to three years or when you’re going to need their help to collaborate or partner. And that’s why I just think it pays to always put your best self forward and always be kind to people.

32:14
Lara Schmoisman
Absolutely.

32:15
Corey Weiss
What goes around comes around. And one thing about myself, Nicole and Jules is that we always pay it forward. And when we work with someone, it’s not about what can you do for us, it’s also about what can we do for you, like how can we help? How is this a two way street? And that’s really important.

32:32
Lara Schmoisman
Absolutely. It’s about supporting each other. And I think that I love this to finish this podcast. And again, like you said, the beauty industry is a beautiful industry that a lot want to come in and learn from it. But just go slow, get your feet wet, get to know people, talk to people, because at the end of the day, the lessons that you learn from others and the relationships you have, that’s what is going to let you grow 100%. Okay. Well, Corey, thank you so much for having coffee with me today.

33:08
Corey Weiss
Thank you for having me. It’s a pleasure.

33:10
Lara Schmoisman
Next time we need to have one in real life.

33:12
Corey Weiss
I would love that.

33:13
Lara Schmoisman
Okay. And to you guys, I will see you next week with more coffee. Number five. Find everything you need at larashmoisman.com or in the episode notes right below. Don’t forget to subscribe. Was so good to have you here today. See you next time. Catch you on the flip side. Ciao, ciao.