00:05
Lara Schmoisman
This is Coffee Number Five. I’m your host, Lara Schmoisman. Hi, everyone. Welcome back to Coffee Number Five. I’m super excited today because I’m going to be talking about something fascinating. Honestly, it’s. We’re going to be like always, we have fascinating guests, we have fascinating stories, but sometimes we can deep dive in some science. And I get fascinated by science. So today I invited Dominic. Daniel. Hi, Dominic. Welcome to Coffee Number Five. 

00:42
Dominique Gagnon
Thank you so much for having me. Happy to be here. 

00:45
Lara Schmoisman
And I want to talk to you a little more about your brand a little more and your journey and how did you get here because you’re. We were talking before the podcast a little more and about biotech and biotech. First of all, what’s biotech and why to include biotech in skincare? 

01:08
Dominique Gagnon
Yeah. Well, I think many people know that biotechnology has revolutionized the pharma industry. Just made so many more compounds accessible that pharma can commercialize and bring to market. Biotech is doing the same thing to beauty right now. And the value I see and the way I describe it is it’s really a unique manufacturing process that allows us to unlock compounds that have never before been available to us as formulators, as skincare brands, and unleashes a whole host of new benefits and higher performance products for our consumers. Biotechnology sort of at its core in terms of manufacturing, a lot of people are familiar with either chemical ingredients or plant based ingredients which are extracted and processed and there’s a lot of waste. 

02:01
Dominique Gagnon
With biotechnology, you are taking the ancient tradition of fermentation, something we all embrace, that makes beer and wine, and combining that with the advances of strain engineering over the last couple decades. It used to cost $25,000 to identify a strain. Now it costs very little. With crispr, we can apply that engineering to a vat and ask those cells to make any compound we want that have incredible properties. And so that’s what we’re doing kind of at debut and with our brand Dende. 

02:33
Lara Schmoisman
So when you decided to have this brand, what were, where did you start? What was your like? Because when I have my own brand and everything comes from an idea, it comes from a concept that you have a need that you see a need in the market. So where did you start and what was that thing that trigger, okay, let’s do this. 

02:54
Dominique Gagnon
The truth is, Laura, that exactly was my challenge. Walking in the door Day one at debut, I was employee number 13, the first business executive joining with a bunch of scientists who’ve been head down on R and D. And my job was to commercialize the ingredient IP with a brand. And I’m a believer in design thinking. I followed ideo in the early days. I 100% believe you start with the consumer in a pain point and work backwards to the solution. And the beauty of biotech. And what it will do across the industry, across brands, not just with dende, is transform the kind of actives, the kind of emulsifiers, the kind of preservatives we can put in our product for higher performance. And I sort of saw that walking in the door. 

03:36
Dominique Gagnon
It’s why I joined and my challenge was to take the ingredients and find a valuable consumer pain point and opportunity and then connect the dots if you will. I was sort of, it felt like a marriage at points. Touch the ingredients, understand them, go into the consumer space. 

03:57
Lara Schmoisman
So what I’m really curious now, what pain points you find that you say? Yeah, like yeah. 

04:04
Dominique Gagnon
So when I walked in the door and they were doing really early research, they had a host of ingredients. I personally, as someone in skincare who understands landscape, got really inspired by this one ingredient, Narrangen. It was, it popped in MRNA testing on over 46 genes. So so many different skin genes that touch so many different benefits from hyperpigmentation to extracellular matrix repair to anti inflammatory, but in the anti inflammatory response it was like 1900 plus percentage response. It had incredible multifunctional properties. It was a superhero ingredient we called it. And when we looked at the consumer landscape, for me I felt like beauty, as you know, you’ve launched a brand, it’s tough, it’s saturated. Everyone’s launching new products. I know all the time. Including me. Yeah. And you know there’s other great players in biotech bringing new ingredient innovations. 

05:02
Dominique Gagnon
I felt I had to raise the bar and that we needed to look for a category innovation, something disruptive, not just the ingredient innovation. And when were looking at what was happening in skincare, it was very clear preventative. Skincare was on the rise with younger generations. Longevity was on the rise in this idea of sustaining your skin health versus repairing when it’s already been broken, if you will. And we came across kind of the science and foundation of inflammation. So for the last two decades, inflammation has been studied by the medical community, by scientists. There’s over 2,000 studies. It basically is exactly what it sounds like. It’s inflammation meets aging. Actually the Wall Street Journal and ABC News just covered it. 

05:57
Lara Schmoisman
I’m very curious because I mean you’re, I’m looking at your website and you are about. We all talk about aging because it’s something we want to look good, we want to be, embrace the your skin and feel good in the skin that we’re in. But you are, you’re talking about prevention and preventing aging. So who is your product for? Who’s your target audience? Who do you find? And this is a marketer in me asking the questions, who do you. Because when you went out there and you did your research of the pain points, who were these people having these. Who are thinking of preventing? Because preventing is before it happens. 

06:42
Dominique Gagnon
We tested with over 6,300 consumers for several years. We were focused on the US market and China. Prevent is very big and our core target are who we call zillennials, a bit of an underserved generation. They’re in between gen Z and millennials 25 to 35. They are just, we call it leveling up. Taking their first steps out of acne management, poor management into the anti aging category, starting to notice early, like crow’s feet, you know, early wrinkles, early skin surface issues. And they’re looking to start investing in sustaining their skin health as long as possible. We did also perform really well with sort of the core beau shopper, the 30s and 40s year old. 

07:28
Dominique Gagnon
We, we have consumers in their 60s as well because obviously the power of our ingredient, which is 15 times more powerful than niacinamide, works for all skin types and ages and reparative properties. But we really sort of double down on this. 25 to 35 year old, that’s a great age group. 

07:48
Lara Schmoisman
I really like that you have a set group and you’re not trying to go for everyone like a lot of brands do. And it’s very clear and I, I love that you guys know who your audience is and what they need. 

08:05
Dominique Gagnon
Yeah, it’s really interesting as well when were looking at the Chinese market because that’s one of the larger market and they’re very much seeking scientific solutions and very open to biotech. I mean they like the longevity, the preventive. It’s much more, I would say robust in terms of that market and consumer than in the US It’s a much more mature market for preventative skincare and solutions. So we’re really excited. I think, you know, it’s definitely an interesting age group. There’s a lot of conversation on how they are less sticky to brands. They try a lot, but we’ve actually taken a very unique community oriented approach in real life to building relationships with them and have started to build a. 

08:57
Lara Schmoisman
Great base so you decided to start your line with four products, Correct? Why the number four? 

09:07
Dominique Gagnon
So I believe you with your skincare line might have the same ethos. I, you know, just in terms of a skincare brand philosophy, believe trends are moving towards minimalism versus maximalism. The age of having. I once watched one of those get ready videos on YouTube and someone had a 93 step routine and I was just flabbergasted in terms of what the damage that might do to someone’s skin. I think dermatologists, skin influencers and you know, are very educated, they’re realizing the damage that does to the skin and they’re looking sort of back to basics. The core essentials for the core benefits to maintain and protect their skin barrier. So we design, I was trying to design a line that would offer the core regimen to sustain skin health and target inflammation. We have our cleanser which so important. 

10:04
Lara Schmoisman
I always think I don’t. People underestimate the power of a good cleanser. 

10:09
Dominique Gagnon
Oh my God. So I was about to give you my little sound bite which is exactly you speak to that because I always get asked why a cleanser or surfactant is a surfactant. But for us a cleanser basically creates the pallet by which your treatment formulation can be efficacious and it can be so disruptive and drying to the barrier. And we actually found that sometimes it aggravates inflammation if you have a disruptive barrier. So we built a My Microbiome certified cleanser that is clinically proven to balance the barrier, maintain barrier integrity and be biome balancing. It’s really gentle, has a lovely microfoam. We had even young consumers who are very gel oriented fall in love with this really light texture. And then we have our sort of core hero skew. This is sort of a easy step up from your antioxidant preventative serum. 

11:06
Dominique Gagnon
It’s a five in one serum that targets all five signs of inflammation. And then because hydration and moisturization is, you know, kind of the top three needs, we have our barrier building moisture cream that actually not just delivers all day moisturization, but it has a unique biotech ingredient that leaves a biomimetic film and protects the skin from future pollutants. And then for me, inflammation is really a result of external stressors. We wanted something to target inflammaging on the go. So we have our really unique face stick that’s designed. 

11:44
Lara Schmoisman
I was about to ask about that. I’m really loving the fact that it did stick. I need to Know more about that. Why stick? Because I was talking about this yesterday with someone else or how fascinating I was of these new models of using products, putting products on your face. I see a lot. I saw there are some products people trying to create sticks to put products, little spoons and this is so much more convenient. 

12:14
Dominique Gagnon
Yeah, it’s interesting. We started working on this three years ago, I think before sticks took off. I think for me it’s the portability. It’s also really minimal packaging. It just seemed like an obvious solution for our very streamline zillennial target. But I think, you know, in cosmetics it’s taking off like Milk and merit and all these other brands. I think consumers are liking the no musk, no frill. Again, back to basics. Leaning into like core items they can throw in their purse use at home. Very functional. 

12:52
Lara Schmoisman
Yeah. And so you have. And again I’m looking referring at your website that you guys, you should look at the website. I think is that you get a lot of information from these products which it’s great. And I really love how you also show the textures of your products and how important is for people to experience that from the visual. 

13:16
Dominique Gagnon
Well, I’m sure you thought a lot about this too as a formulator lead for me a product experience and beauty. Even though we are science based, science led and the benefits and clinicals are robust, it’s so sensorial. You know, the minute you open a package, that first moment of seeing it, putting it on your fingers, putting on your face, it’s your first wow moment and sort of moment where you can create stickiness. So I really challenged my team that we needed to sort of elevate the bar or surprise and delight with every texture which is why it ended up showing so strongly on our website. Website. We’re very proud of the textures we achieved. 

13:59
Lara Schmoisman
I wish also we can transferring website smell because I think so important how it smell or doesn’t smell for a lot of people. 

14:07
Dominique Gagnon
If you ever come up with any sort of IP or software that codes sent through computers, we would not be having this conversation. You would be a billionaire on an island. 

14:19
Lara Schmoisman
I don’t think I quite are, but I can keep dreaming. What is the difference between or why you call it biotech actives? 

14:30
Dominique Gagnon
Yeah. So biotech again a manufacturing process that can basically make any compound or molecule. It can make scent molecules, it can make emulsifiers, it can make preservatives. For me, what was really unique about what Dende offers is that we focus on the workhorses of formulations that give the consumers the benefits. The actives, that’s where your like largest percentage of dollar goes in building a formulation. That’s what delivers the performance, that creates stickiness, that. And so you know, at Dende, our proprietary ingredient, Naringen is the active in the formula and it’s the basically the engine in the powerhouse of what delivers all the benefits. 

15:17
Lara Schmoisman
What intrigues me a lot is that you guys are showing a lot of is an unisex brand we can call it. 

15:26
Dominique Gagnon
Yeah. 

15:28
Lara Schmoisman
I mean being so different the needs from men and women’s skin, why this product you feel or this new technology is works for both and or it makes it. Is it different how it works in man’s skin than in woman’s skin? 

15:43
Dominique Gagnon
Yeah. Myself and my team are very sensitive that our consumer is viewing gender in a very different way and we want it to be inclusive as possible. So when I referenced the 6,300 consumers and influencers we touched, we made sure all skin types, even like facial hair, different facial hair types, ethnicities, ages. And when we moved into clinicals, while it’s typical and easy to recruit, typically those with white skin, we focused and ensured we had all ethnicities represented. So. 

16:25
Lara Schmoisman
And in your clinicals did you find any kind of difference? 

16:29
Dominique Gagnon
No, no. So you know, in building this line, I think the one sort of line in the sand I drew was around sensitive skin. I think the last data point I saw was that over 70% of consumers self proclaim or self identify as having sensitive skin. We wanted every formulation to meet the national association seal of acceptance and be safe sensitive skin. But absent that, we really wanted to be as inclusive as possible and make this a core skin health line for your everyday skin health. So you know, with the clinicals we have, we’re feeling very strong and confident that we deliver results for all skin types. 

17:20
Lara Schmoisman
That’s great to hear. That’s. I mean, and that you have the clinicals. How many clinicals you did for this brand or you did it specific for one concern or two to. Because this is what I see many times when we do, I hear clinicals, the results may be vague if you don’t know what you are testing for. 

17:41
Dominique Gagnon
Very much so. And I think what I’m really proud on is that the executive team and our board was willing to spend more to do eight week clinicals with instrumentation, not just self perception studies with a small base. So we number one invest heavily in all the clinicals we do on our biotech. 

18:04
Lara Schmoisman
Were they done in the US or they were done somewhere else? 

18:07
Dominique Gagnon
In the world, they were done in the US So yeah, our on the ingredient side, we do in house preclinical testing and then we always use an external CRO for ingredient clinicals which is also 8 week double blind. Then every formulation has an 8 week clinical and we ensure at a statistical level we have all skin types represented and we can claim for sensitive skin. And we measure at sort of baseline four weeks, eight weeks. And we combine instrumentation, clinical grading and self perception for a really robust array of data and understanding of the product’s performance. So for example, our serum, maybe I’ll start with. Our serum is clinically proven to target all five signs of inflammation. It boosts elasticity, moisturization, it reduces hyperpigmentation, and it helps with both fine lines and deep wrinkles. It’s a really powerhouse formulation. Our barrier building moisture cream. 

19:15
Dominique Gagnon
We constructed clinicals that tested for immediate boost because we knew that was important and not just moisturization, but immediate boost to barrier integrity. And then tested four weeks, eight weeks. So all of this adds up in terms of cost. But we really believed, you know, biotech is new. You, you started the combo here. Biotech is new to a lot of consumers and we want to showcase the power of what biotech can do in formulations and how much potency there is in terms of what you can deliver to your skin topically. 

19:52
Lara Schmoisman
So let’s switch a little bit the conversation to the marketing part because I like, I see that you guys did a lot of things right and I want to applaud you on that. But I think that you guys are really telling the story of your brand and explaining really well. But also can you tell us how much. I’m not going to ask you in numbers how much money because every brand is different. But you had to put resources and efforts not only in clinicals. I see that you did photography, you use the right models. All that is a budget that you had to plan ahead. And that’s what I see a lot of young brands making, I wouldn’t say mistakes, but overseeing the importance of allocating that budget. 

20:41
Dominique Gagnon
Yeah, I’m sure you’re well aware, but everyone is noting in the industry that acquisition costs are rising and it’s a competitive market. I as well have seen so many entrepreneurs just focus their funding on just getting the product right and getting the product ready and they don’t really think about the next step or the next stage, which is once you have a great product and a great brand, you actually need to invest money and have an interesting strategy. To get people to come and try it, let alone repeat. We actually spent a lot of time. For us, the challenge was, you know, we’re not only a new brand, so we have to explain our brand name. Dende stands for Latin what’s next and kind of build understanding of what this brand uniquely offers in skincare targeting inflammation. 

21:32
Dominique Gagnon
But we also had to invest marketing dollars in sharing and educating consumers on our new benefit territory, inflammaging and how it’s powered by a new biotech active neurogenin. And any marketer, believe me, I understand you. 

21:49
Lara Schmoisman
I have the same issue with Yerba Mate or Yerba Mate, how people call it here. 

21:54
Dominique Gagnon
Yeah. And I can’t begin to tell you the amount of conversations I’ve had with my brand marketing director and our senior art director who did the beautiful photography on what is the priority, what will resonate with consumers and get their appeal at top of funnel and then where do we educate more as they go through and learn more about the brand? And there’s been a ton of testing. So the beauty of digital is that you can test a lot and then adjust and carry that through to larger campaigns. And we, you know, I think for us the priority was to lean into both dermatologists as gatekeepers as key opinion leaders have them educate more on the science, the inflammation and naringen. 

22:47
Dominique Gagnon
Like we had people reviewing our clinicals last year before we even launched them, and then focused on beauty influencers, core skincare enthusiasts to introduce dende to them and then let them go discover inflammaging and naringenin from the derms and those talking about it. But it’s been a huge challenge for us. I think what’s really unique about the approach we’ve taken, which I’m still laughing about in this year, in terms of it was a risk. We decided out of the gate to invest money in events and in real life, kind of out of home and events engagement, which is typically something larger brands do with larger budgets or new brands launched by the major Fortune 1002, it’s an expensive thing to do and commit to out of the gate as a startup brand. Any founder will tell you that. 

23:48
Dominique Gagnon
But actually our team felt really strong that with this consumer 25 to 35 year old coming out of COVID they really wanted that engagement. That was the way to be disruptive in the market and build something interesting. And we’ve gotten so much EMV and love for some of our unique events. We did a teal because that’s our brand color turtle Teal A teal matcha latte giveaway and face stick giveaway pop up for commuters in New York and for LA fans, we did a skincare taco truck with teal whipped cream in honor of our cleanser. 

24:28
Lara Schmoisman
Oh, that’s so cute. 

24:30
Dominique Gagnon
Yeah. And we got really just so much love from the consumer and even, you know, consumers in Miami saying, come to Miami next. I think the blend of digital education and real life has been a really almost the secret sauce of us getting this far. 

24:48
Lara Schmoisman
That’s great. And also something that we cannot forget is about the social proof and how important is get people to try those products and to comment about those products. And I think that’s one of the things that a lot of young brands are forgetting. And it’s not only about putting 3D images, it’s about putting real people. 

25:13
Dominique Gagnon
Yeah. My. We have a rule within our team that we won’t launch a product unless there’s minimum 50, if not 100 reviews. Consumers these days, you know, they’re saturated on their phones. They see so many ads from so many different products, cross categories. They really expect strong products with visible results. Oh, the amount of money we spend on photography just get the perfect before and after. So important. Yeah. 

25:43
Lara Schmoisman
But also they need to be realistic. You need to get those people to talk in social media about them. 

25:48
Dominique Gagnon
And I think for influencers, we have so many amazing who’ve really championed the brand and spend a lot of time organically, you know, advocating for us, which we love. I think it is really being open up and upfront about the content schedule, the partnerships already in play and kind of for us, we want to make sure someone genuinely loves a product. It works for their skin, it works for their story and how they’ve discussed their skin in the past before. You know, we really move forward and put any pain behind it. 

26:18
Lara Schmoisman
Well, thank you so much, Dominic, for spending time with us to have this very genuine conversation and to share the experience of what’s bringing a new beauty line to life, but also trying to be different and really to bring and to help people with needs that they are not out there. 

26:42
Dominique Gagnon
Well, thank you so much for having me again. It’s been really lovely chatting with you. 

26:46
Lara Schmoisman
Same here. And to you guys. I will see you next week with more coffee. Number five. Find everything you need at larashmoisman.com or in the episode notes right below. Don’t forget to subscribe. Was so good to have you here today. See you next time. Catch you on the flip side. Ciao. Ciao.