Episode 164 – Coffee N5 – Sipping on the Truth Behind PR with Robin Doyle

Explore the essence of modern publicity with Coffee N° 5’s latest episode! Join Lara and industry expert, Robin Doyle, as they navigate the evolving role of publicists, the crucial link between creativity and trend awareness, and the art of being PR-ready. Discover why not everyone can step into the shoes of a publicist, and discover the intricate relationship between ROI and PR. Whether you’re considering a new publicist or looking for insights into the challenges of the industry, this episode is your essential guide. Tune in now for a dose of industry wisdom and inspiration!

We’ll talk about:

  • What do publicists do and how the role has changed over the years
  • The importance of creativity and trend awareness
  • What it means to be PR-ready
  • Why not everyone can be a publicist
  • The relationship between ROI and PR
  • The challenges of choosing a new publicist

For more information, visit Charmed PR’s Website.

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Also, follow our host Lara Schmoisman on social media:

Instagram: @laraschmoisman

Facebook: @LaraSchmoisman

About Robin Doyle

Robin Doyle founded Beautyologie.com, a fair trade, and ethically sourced online marketplace for conscious consumers who want their beauty products to make a difference, not just on the surface of their skin, but in the world we live in. With 25+ years of experience in the beauty industry as a writer and publicist,  Robin Doyle is a passionate advocate for beauty brands that use the industry as a vehicle for social change.  Her mission is to motivate consumers to make ethical and educated choices with their purchasing power while illuminating the importance of fair trade practices within the beauty industry.

Lara Schmoisman
00:05
This is Coffee Number Five. I’m your host, Lara Schmoisman. Hello, everyone. Welcome back to Coffee Number Five. I’m exhausted. I was traveling for hours yesterday, but I had this podcast, which I’m super excited about, and we’re going to have a real conversation here. I brought my girlfriend, my pr expert that I trust with my brand, also, Robin. So welcome. Robin. I’m so excited that you’re here with us today. Robin Doyle. And she has a bunch of experience. But today, what I. Robin, you work in retail, you work for fashion now. You specialize in the beauty industry, and on top of that, now you like me. You are able to see your business, your our business from your other side because you have an econ.

Robin Doyle
01:03
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. First of all, I know you had reached out months ago, and I was like, oh, God, this is going to be a big deal, and I kind of need to work myself up here. So here I am five months later. He said, yes. Thank you again for having me. This is awesome. I’m very excited to be here. And we have, you know, we’ve been, you know, bumping into each other over the last couple of years just because we are in the same circles, so. Absolutely.

Lara Schmoisman
01:36
But also, I mean, I would say were able to have deep conversations about, like, we like to call it smoke and mirrors and that it happens a lot in the industry and it happens a lot in marketing and pr. So I really love to use this time and give people a little bit of our insight conversations.

Robin Doyle
01:59
Yeah, absolutely.

Lara Schmoisman
02:00
What we call smoke and mirrors. And also because let’s start with the concept that to me, PR is part of marketing. It’s part that of all your marketing plan for your brand, you cannot. And right now, there is a lot going on between PR because you need the link shares and you need an SEO and so many issues. So marketing and pr, they really interconnect.

Robin Doyle
02:33
Yeah, they definitely do. Just to back up a little, I’ve been in the PR business. I’ve the founder of Charmed PR, which is a boutique PR agency specializing in beauty brands. I’ve worked a lot over, like Laura said, with fashion and accessories, but primarily focus on beauty. And I’ve been doing it for about 18 years. Previously to that, I was in the editorial world and I wrote beauty articles and entertainment pieces. So for years I was doing that work on the editorial side as a beauty editor. And so obviously with anything in all businesses, they change over time. And so I’ve been privy to see how this business has evolved in the last two plus decades and.

Lara Schmoisman
03:20
And it’s so interesting to be able to see it from different points of view.

Robin Doyle
03:24
Yeah, I think so, too, because, you know, when you’re doing pr, you’re focusing on a very specific thing. And then I think a lot of people still don’t understand. I mean, it’s almost like a joke. People still don’t get what pr is. You know, even like, amongst my group of publicist friends, we joke that our parents aren’t, our friends and family still don’t understand what we do.

Lara Schmoisman
03:42
Okay, so let’s start from the beginning. What do you do?

Robin Doyle
03:45
What’s it do? I don’t even know. Don’t ask me. I’m not quite sure myself. So public are kind of like a liaison for brands and the media, and we kind of like, are a champion. We stand on our soapboxes and we promote our clients to the media. We keep an eye out for all kinds of opportunities, not just editorial pieces, but broadcast opportunities. Also. We keep an eye out and we do connections for collaboration. It’s a way to create brand awareness for your brand. And so, like I said, over the years, it’s changed a lot. When I first started, it was all about print magazines. And so it was getting features in publications like everything from Red Book to Marie Claire, Good Housekeeping, better homes and gardens, new beauty, you know, 17, teen vogue. With all these mag, there was so many magazines.

Robin Doyle
04:51
And so I have to say it was like normal for me to get 5678 print placements a month for my clients. Beauties, accessories, fashion. As the years have gone on, it’s changed. Obviously, there’s no more print. There’s very small, it’s all online, it’s all the advertising world shifted to affiliate world. And you have to become an expert in that world as a publicist to even play the game anymore. And then on top of it, there’s obviously all the influencer stuff and there’s a social media aspects, and pay to play is almost like, it’s basically, you know, expected at this point. And you have to become incredibly creative and figure out ways to get your clients press if they’re a product trying to promote a product, because it just doesn’t, it’s just not the same as it was.

Robin Doyle
05:57
And a lot of brands don’t necessarily understand that world because they don’t come from it. And why would they? You know, they’re doing other things.

Lara Schmoisman
06:06
One of the things that we normally talk with PR people and they send me clients many times and say, well, they’re not PR ready because they are not marketing ready. What means for a brand to be PR ready?

Robin Doyle
06:22
Okay, so this is really interesting. So I want to talk about for a brand to be PR ready. I’ve always said when I have brands coming to me, interested in hiring me or asking me how I can help them, I, you know, I kind of listen to what they’re doing, where they’re at, and I always tell them, and I’ve always said this to everyone, no matter, you know, what the client is, even if I really wanted them, that PR is truly the last piece of the puzzle for them to hire. A lot of people get excited. They’re like, oh, I have a product. I’m going to create this brand. I’m going to get a publicist. Do you have marketing? Do you have your brand story? Do you have your website, your assets? Do you know how you set yourself apart from your competition?

Robin Doyle
07:06
Who’s your target audience? What are your, what are your goals? Like, who, you know, what other brands out there are doing what you’re doing? How are you different? You know, there’s so many things involved that you need to know as a business person when you’re creating a business and your publicist is, they should be asking you all these questions, and because they’re going to need to know these answers when they’re pitching you or they’re putting you out there, otherwise they’re not doing you any service.

Lara Schmoisman
07:35
So I always say, also, what’s your gray area you need to know as a publicist? What, what’s your, know, where you, where do you don’t want to go?

Robin Doyle
07:46
Yeah. Brand.

Lara Schmoisman
07:47
And who you’re not as a brand. Because I seen a lot of, in the desperation of a lot of publicist pitching to the wrong places.

Robin Doyle
07:57
Yeah, no, it’s true. And, and it’s hard, and I get it. And I’m on both sides of the page here because I see that, you know, writers, editors get upset because they’re not being pitched properly. There’s this playing field is so crowded. There’s so many brands. There’s so many more publicists now than there ever was. There’s so many beauty brands out there. And there’s just, and there’s less outlets. There’s less people writing about this. There’s not enough people to write the content. So they’re getting inundated and they’re getting frustrated, and I get it.

Lara Schmoisman
08:41
And on top of that, now there is this trend that anyone can be a publicist themselves. Take this course, take these classes online, and not only be a publicist for yourself, also you can charge for this.

Robin Doyle
08:55
Yes. So, yeah, I find that to be incredibly interesting. And that’s where I think we started talking about smoke and mirrors, because, listen, I have been doing this work for 18 years. Did I start off in an agency? Did I go to school for communications? I was an english major. I was in the beauty industry. I was writing. I had my own hair accessories company when I was 25. I knew that world of pr, having worked with publicists on the editorial side. And I kind of just tested the waters and fell into this. Did I set out to do this from a young age? No. However, I have the credo. I have the big. I have the experience.

Robin Doyle
09:35
A lot of these people just say, I’m going to be a publicist, or they say, I know how to get you this, that, and the other, and I’m going to charge you know, you only have to pay, you know, $9.99 or you come take my course or you listen to my podcast and I’ll make it happen. I can tell you that, like, it’s. I laugh and it’s. They’re very convincing, a lot of these people. I have really good, smart, intelligent women coming to me, my good friends that I’m always helping them with however I can. What do you think of this? I think I’m going to sign up for this. I’m like, why don’t. Why? They’re just very convincing.

Robin Doyle
10:12
But at the end of the day, I’ve never heard of any true amazing stories because these people aren’t out there doing the work and they’re not networking with the people that you need to be networking with.

Lara Schmoisman
10:25
Exactly. You’re not doing your job as a company founder or as see of the company. If you’re trying to do your pr, trying to do your instagram, or if you’re trying to do your website. Yeah, to run your business, you have.

Robin Doyle
10:40
To run your business. But you also have to be educating yourself on a continuing basis. Because, let’s say for me, I’ve been doing this for so long, but things are so different now, and everybody’s changing and this is moving and this change, I have to constantly learn and keep up with what’s happening and what’s new. So I’m, you know, like, just yesterday I went and did a whole course on, you know, brushing up on my affiliate knowledge because I want to make sure that I know what I’m doing because it’s not. It has to be, you know, I can’t just tell a client, this is what you need. I have to know how to do it, you know.

Robin Doyle
11:15
So as a business person, you’re running a business, but you’re also constantly having to keep up with the latest trends to, you know, be the right, you know, do the right stuff for your clients. So, you know, I can’t just, I mean, it’d be great to just tell you what to do but like, and also do it.

Lara Schmoisman
11:35
VR is not magic. So there are a few things that I’ve been noticing lately, also that there is all these magazines, because the online magazines, they lost a lot of money by people print buying print magazines. So they created this opportunity also. Some of them call it, you are a contributor, you are a console, part of the console, but that’s a pay opportunity. So it’s not that you were featured in Forbes or entrepreneur. If you got someone who’s a contributor, who pays to be a contributor and then writes an article about you and is not a legit journalist.

Robin Doyle
12:21
Yeah, yeah. I mean, listen, again, like I said, a lot of people that get into having businesses, they don’t necessarily understand the back end. And again, like, most people, a lot of people that aren’t even in this world might not even see it. So then they say, oh, she was featured in Forbes, or she got, you know, she’s got this, she’s able to use this logo and she got, you know, and featured in this magazine, or she was top ten entrepreneurial women of 2024 from, you know, it’s a magazine that is created from somebody living in a basement in somewhere in the middle. I mean, like, there’s so many of these things out there. Or you got an award from X, Y and Z. It costs you this much money. What’s the award? Like? You’ve never heard of it before.

Robin Doyle
13:11
Like, there’s so many money grabs out there and they’re so, and like, that’s where the smoke and mirrors is. You just don’t know what’s legit. And so if you don’t have somebody on your team that truly can vet all of these opportunities and say, this is bullshit, this is, you know, money grab, don’t believe this, then you’re going to get screwed and you’re going to be like, a lot of waste.

Lara Schmoisman
13:37
A lot of those are look and sound very legit.

Robin Doyle
13:40
Yeah, they do. And tell me, tell you, because I do pr, I also have beauty ology, which is a marketplace. So I am a founder as well of a beauty marketplace. And so I get hit up all the time for these types of opportunities as well. And there can be very enticing too, sometimes. And then I look and I realize that this is ridiculous and, you know, but then you don’t necessarily know if you aren’t in this world.

Lara Schmoisman
14:14
I’ve seen a lot. This is something that I see going on a lot with founders that they are, they want to move the needle. They’re so desperate to move the needle that they think that being featured here automatically magically will transform into cells.

Robin Doyle
14:31
Yeah, that’s a huge misnomer, I think, with PR in general, because there’s no, you cannot equate ROi with PR. I mean, this has been an conversation I’m kind of sick of hearing because it’s always the same thing. It’s like it’s more about brand awareness, and it’s something that you have to, I don’t know. What is it like, though? When you see something, you have to see it, like, twelve times or 20 times before you even, like, pay attention to it or whatever. It keeps upping and upping. But, like, that’s pr. It doesn’t mean that it doesn’t generate ROI. I have plenty of hits, media hits with clients, and they’re like, oh, my God, that was great. That really brought in the sales. I’m like, that’s the best thing you can ever hear as a publicist. You’re so happy, right?

Robin Doyle
15:19
I’m always happy for every media. When I get, each one feels like it’s harder and harder. It’s like giving birth to a child every freaking time. You get one, like, more now than it ever was. But when I get a client, they’re like, oh, my God, we got, you know, these orders. I’m like, so happy. It’s amazing. But it doesn’t mean that’s always going to happen. And when clients are like, and I’ve had clients even recently going, I just don’t understand, like, all the pr you’ve been doing, it hasn’t generated any sales, and I just don’t know why. And I’m like, you know what? I don’t either. I’m, I mean, I do know, but you haven’t done anything with it. You haven’t, like, you haven’t up leveled it.

Robin Doyle
16:00
You know, I could get clients names and Marie Claire, I can get them in. You name it. And like they’re saying, oh, it hasn’t done anything for me. That’s, that’s where the marketing can come in. That’s where you might be able to come in and help the brand.

Lara Schmoisman
16:16
It’s not about one thing is the authority of the brand, but it doesn’t mean that the authority will immediately affect performance and that you, there is so much more going on. Like you have to be willing as an, as a brand owner to put a budget besides marketing ads and all that. But you’re gonna have to give product away and a lot.

Robin Doyle
16:40
Oh yeah. You, if you think you’re gonna start a beauty brand and not give products away, then I would not even advise you to start a brand. I mean it’s, you have to. But, you know, back to starting a business and being like serious about it’s just, it takes money. It takes money and unless you know, and I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, you get really, you get viral, you blow up, you’re making something and you’re selling it at a farmer’s market and somebody comes around and like, you know, invest, I don’t know, like things happen.

Robin Doyle
17:19
But in the, mostly it’s like you really have to have a lot of solid financial backing around you if you want to do it the right way, if you want to get it out to magazines, if you want the right, you know, marketing, the SEO, the website, the, I mean there’s so many elements involved and I remember, you know, talking with you and we talked about like the circle of what it takes to have a business. And there’s, you know, there’s chunks of everything in marketing and this, that and everything has a part of it and pr is only one slice of it, really. It’s not everything. And a lot of times brands don’t get that. They think, oh, I’m going to get one press hit and I’m going to blow up.

Lara Schmoisman
18:01
Yeah, no, and it’s not magic. It’s always about creating a sustainable strategy. And when we’re talking about sustainable, we’re talking about something that you can maintain over time because pr, marketing, everything we do needs consistency and people need to see you in, that’s why billboards still work, because you want to create that brand awareness, but people want to see it in this magazine or in that magazine. They need to see you consistently and they are everywhere.

Robin Doyle
18:33
What about awards?

Lara Schmoisman
18:34
Because again, there are a lot of awards that they are paper play and there are so many.

Robin Doyle
18:40
Yeah, that’s blown up in the last few years too and it’s kind of ridiculous. And yeah, people don’t always understand it’s a business just like anything and again, not all of them charge, but a lot of them do charge. And it can be, it’s a game, really. Some are great, obviously, like getting, I’m not going to lie. Like, I had a client that recently got a best skincare, Oprah daily. Right. And so that’s a big deal for them. It’s huge. And they should be, it’s very exciting. They’ve taken it and they use it in all of their marketing, which is the right thing to do. I mean, you want to up level it. You want to lead with, you know, you’re Oprah Daily Award winning skincare brand that makes people like, listen, oh my God, this is not just another whatever.

Robin Doyle
19:37
It gives them credence. It gives them, they can brag about it and it gives them street cred, like I said. And, you know, so stuff like that might not necessarily be pay to play, but there are all these other companies out there that are, that know that people want these awards because it makes them look good and they’ll charge you. And I’m not going to, you know, obviously I can’t, not going to say which ones, but like, yeah, they’re exciting when you get all these awards, but at the end of the day, I don’t know, like you can use it on your social media, on your website, you can talk. It gives you some thoughts, but at the same time it does, you know, like, it doesn’t necessarily, you know, mean a whole lot.

Robin Doyle
20:20
I guess it’s like if you don’t know. And if you’re just spying, looking for something and you see, oh, this guy’s a label, it looks like they won something, you don’t know, again, give you more authority.

Lara Schmoisman
20:34
But if the award is not recognized by a certain community or the award itself has that authority, really, how much is Britain giving you?

Robin Doyle
20:43
Not much. You know, when you are getting wins for like allure and all the big names, you know, obviously those are fantastic and amazing and you want to use that for your deck, like, let’s say your brand, you’re looking to get funding and you want to look good to investors or you want to get into more stores and you want to, you know, get picked up, you know, nationally in the retail chain, then obviously they want to see all these wins and that’s great. But the little ones where they’re charging you all this money, I’d be leery about. It’s not really worth it at the end of the day.

Lara Schmoisman
21:20
Yeah. And also there is a search of new communities and beauty communities that for a fee you get help. And the same with sales. I’ve been seeing also a lot of people saying, okay, you get the retainer of this, but you don’t get a salesperson. You get like a program that you know how to do sales and you get all these questions. There is a lot out there and that you believe that the price tag is more affordable. But at the end of the day, you’re just, in my experience, wasting money away because you’re not getting a real deal or you don’t get to learn from someone who is a professional in that space.

Robin Doyle
22:10
Yeah, I think you really have to do your homework when you bring anyone on because there’s so many people coming at you when you open a business. If you’re on LinkedIn, on social media, they find you and they are very convincing. I can help you do this, that and the other. I mean, the best way I could ever get is, you know, if I ever bring anyone on, it’s like I have to know them personally. It’s a very solid recommendation of a person that I’ve worked with for years who I trust. You know, when I started beauty ology, I was just funny, like, I’m like, I’m never going to make a mistake. I’m going to do everything very methodically. I’m going to think out everything. I’m going to do it.

Robin Doyle
22:58
I’m just like, I think I’ve made, I don’t even know how many mistakes, like, but I don’t even call them mistakes anymore. I just call them, you know, life lessons. Yeah, I mean, but you can’t help it.

Lara Schmoisman
23:09
But also everything evolves. And one of the things that evolve is like, for example, PR. We need to use PR. And as an agency, I need to use pr for backlinking and for SEO, which for me is really important. But also the pr side. Now you get retribution. Links are from Amazon, for example. There is, you can get a link for those outlets who want to advertise you. They get a little commission from yourselves. The same happened. You can do it from your website. And it’s not an added thing that we can do now is need that you have to offer it.

Robin Doyle
23:52
Yeah. You mean like. Yeah, yeah. And then again, that’s also something that I learned more about when I was creating videology, is the need for all of these backlinks and SEO, it’s so important. And so, yeah, that’s the other thing. I get a lot. I don’t know if you do too with yours, but companies coming to me saying they want to add a blog to my site. If you link to this, I’ll link to that. And it’s like, because they’re all, they’re trying to network.

Lara Schmoisman
24:22
I get it all the time. But it’s a lot of work just to see how legit it is, because in backlinking we have something that is called toxic background links and you don’t want to have those. So you need to. It’s really hard to control the narrative of where your content end up when you’re doing those things.

Robin Doyle
24:44
Yeah, no, it’s true. You don’t know necessarily.

Lara Schmoisman
24:47
So backlinking PR is one of the healthiest way to get real and backlinking.

Robin Doyle
24:55
Yeah, no, it’s true. That’s why I think it’s so important when I’m pitching clients and brands and, you know, maybe it’s not the biggest name in the world, but it’s a legit, you know, site and it’s good for SEO and making sure that they have the right link, that their name is linked to their site or their, you know, or their LinkedIn or whatever it is, because it is important to have all of those things.

Lara Schmoisman
25:20
Like the other day, for example, someone contact me that they want to have an Amazon shop only to be, and this was someone from the PR side that was talking to me, that they want to create an Amazon shop which has a cost for their client so they can give a link to Amazon and every attribution link so they get that percentage back. And I say, well, you know, that Amazon is a whole different world. I can do that for you. But you’re really going to be ruining your Amazon product reputation. You just put a shop for that reason.

Robin Doyle
26:01
Okay, I’m sorry, the person the publicist wanted to get. Yes, okay. I don’t know.

Lara Schmoisman
26:08
Yes. The publicist was pushing the client to open a shop in Amazon just to get the backlink. That to me is the wrong reason to open an Amazon shop. And that brings me back to the idea that whatever you do in PR, in marketing, in Amazon, whatever you do need to be part of your business plan. This is a business. At the end of the day, you can be super passionate about your product or your e commerce or whatever, but you have to have a business plan.

Robin Doyle
26:39
Yeah, no, that’s, that sounds very fishy. I mean, Amazon is, you know, for publishing in terms of when we’re talking about pr and pushing products. A lot of the publishing companies love Amazon. They want Amazon. So unless you’re, if you’re not set up with an affiliate network, and if at least you have Amazon, you’re okay. Because a lot of them like Amazon. Like, yeah, first, or they get not only a percentage, when somebody places an order, they get the whole cart. So let’s say you went on, you read a story about some eye cream and you bought it, you clicked on it from, you know, whatever website, and then it went to Amazon, you bought it, and then you said, oh, I need to get this, that. I need to, you know, restock my socks, whatever it is.

Robin Doyle
27:36
And then you. Your card is what, $200? You buy it. That company, the publishing company, gets a percentage on the whole shopping cart.

Lara Schmoisman
27:47
I didn’t know that side.

Robin Doyle
27:50
Yeah, it’s sneaky.

Lara Schmoisman
27:52
Sneaky, but. Well, but that’s how this wall works. I know, but going back to PR, because to me, PR, and this is how I always, I was from the part of marketing, I work in PR, but I work as a journalist and I work in PR as part of a network. For me always, PR was about building connections.

Robin Doyle
28:15
Yeah, it is. It is, it is. I mean, it is. And it doesn’t mean. But it does. At the end of the day, it still doesn’t mean, like, if I have my best friend works at so and so magazine, I could just be like, can you please put this in? It doesn’t mean they’re going to do it.

Lara Schmoisman
28:27
No.

Robin Doyle
28:29
Yeah, so it is, it’s about connections and it’s, and just trying to keep up with that is a full time job because people are constantly moving and changing. And one goes from, with this magazine, then she goes to this site or she’s changing jobs or there’s this person and that person and people are getting cut and things are happening more. So now I feel like it’s just, it’s so sad. Every time I feel like I wake up and I open my computer and I see this site’s shuttered or this one is not, this one is closing, or this one just laid off 100 people. And now, you know, it’s just, it’s a really weird time right now. And so you can have the most amazing connections and then you’re.

Robin Doyle
29:15
They could have been, they could be gone the next day from wherever they’re working. And, yeah, they’re freelance.

Lara Schmoisman
29:21
You keep building connections.

Robin Doyle
29:22
You keep building connections. Yes, but like, I guess if you don’t have that inside, you know, view and know what’s going on through, you know, in the industry and really know these people, then, yeah, you’re going to have a really hard time cutting through all of it.

Lara Schmoisman
29:37
Absolutely. Before we go, I have one question that always to me is very important. How do you maintain the integrity as a publicist?

Robin Doyle
29:52
Well, I think it just. It’s who I guess you have to be. For me, I. It’s a hard thing, Laura. I mean, no, I mean, for me, it’s like, I guess because I’m so very passionate about what I do, and when I take on a client or I’m working with something, I give it everything I am. I just. This is the way I am. I care too much. Maybe it’s just my personality and I’m the same way. And so I never. And honestly, I have to say, I’m not somebody that’s just going to take a client because I want the monthly retainer or whatever it is. If I can’t truly help somebody, then I’m like, I’m honest with them. And I always tell my clients, like, I’m very open. That’s who I am.

Robin Doyle
30:45
If I can’t get you anything, then if this is completely out of my comfort zone, then I don’t take you on. And so I think that it’s hard because I let my clients, and I think that’s why people like me, and that’s why I’ve always had referrals and I’ve never really had to go out and market myself as a publicist because I am basically what you get. This is me. I’m not, you know, selling you a bunch of bullshit, like, if you. And I’m honest and I, you know, and I tell them it’s hard. And so I let my clients know that this job is not easy. I don’t want to lie and say I’m going to be able to get you this, that, and the other.

Robin Doyle
31:28
But I’m also the type that I can’t sleep at night if I’m like, if I can’t, you know, perform.

Lara Schmoisman
31:32
So how soon can you get results for a client?

Robin Doyle
31:38
I mean, it used to take a longer time because things were not all online. Now it’s totally different. I mean, I can. It could take months. It could take 12 hours, I can tell you that. I just got a client, pitched a client for Newsweek, and it was up the next morning. Okay. It was so great. It was. That’s the fastest. That’s super fast. I’ve been pitching a product for three months, and I’m still waiting for something to happen. And there’s no rhyme or reason. It doesn’t mean I’m not working as hard one client or the other.

Lara Schmoisman
32:17
Or the one product is better than the other.

Robin Doyle
32:20
Yeah. And it makes me crazy.

Lara Schmoisman
32:22
No, it comes with the calendar of the publications. You never know what is in the. Their editorial calendar or what they want to feature.

Robin Doyle
32:30
I never, you know, I think that’s, I don’t know. I’ve always, like, a long time ago, I would always be like, getting the editorial calendars every year, making sure what was going on. I don’t even do that anymore because you kind of just know, you know, this month is this month and this month is that month and this, you know, we’re going to talk about this in June and we’re going to talk about Mother’s Day. It’s like, it’s ingrained in my head. I’ve done it for how many? You know, I was a beauty editor, so I know. Exactly. I see the same stories every. How many.

Lara Schmoisman
33:03
Absolutely.

Robin Doyle
33:04
Wrote them all.

Lara Schmoisman
33:05
But everyone learn, I think, that from which the inception of the Internet and then with COVID we’d even learn more of going day by day and what is going on and the trends.

Robin Doyle
33:20
Yeah, it’s so driven, like, and you just see, you know, like may now it’s all about Mother’s day, but it’s, you know, it’s also, it was API month, so you’re going to see a lot about asian American, you know, founders being promoted this month. Last month was Earth month. So, you know, you just know that’s what’s going to be. That’s what’s going to be covered. But doesn’t mean you can’t do your homework and know and be prepared and have an editorial calendar to go by and, you know, use that as your compass for everything that you do, whether it’s pitching your marketing, your social media, your collaborations, all of this stuff.

Lara Schmoisman
34:03
So. So when people are trying to get a pr contract, what’s the minimum time that you owe? Recommend someone to hire publicist for?

Robin Doyle
34:17
Well, I think the norm is usually six months. I am a little more lenient because I want to, I think it’s just because I want to make sure it’s a good fit, because if I don’t like the client, I don’t want to be stuck in anything, to be honest, because I’ve had those situations where it’s just like, you know, why did I take this on? You know, it just makes my life harder than it is. I don’t need that. So I, me personally, I just do three months because also I, and that’s the other thing for me. I’ve always kind of worked with, like, a lot of brands that are smaller. Indie startup, don’t have huge budgets, and they want to try it. And so I get it. I’ve been there. I’m that person.

Robin Doyle
35:05
I’m, I empathize with my clients, and so I try to make it, you know, a little bit more palatable for them and me. And so I don’t mind doing a three month thing to give it a shot and see how it goes and then go month to month. I don’t think you want to do less. You can’t do less than three months.

Lara Schmoisman
35:27
No, absolutely three months. It’s hard to start.

Robin Doyle
35:31
Sorry. I’m not saying I’m doing myself any service, but, like, usually it’s at least six months.

Lara Schmoisman
35:37
Yeah, I agree. Well, Robin, thank you so much for being here with me today and to clarify some myth out there that we see about PR and to also go over and to give us ideas and tips of how to identify those smoke and mirrors.

Robin Doyle
35:59
Yeah, you gotta know what to look for, so. But I. Lot of stuff to talk about on that, so I appreciate you having me on. Thank you.

Lara Schmoisman
36:09
And to you guys, we will see you next week with more coffee. Number five. Find everything you need at LaraSchmoisman.com. Or in the episode notes right below. Don’t forget to subscribe. Was so good to have you here today. See you next time. Catch you on the flip side. Ciao. Ciao.

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