00:02
Lara Schmoisman
Hi, you guys. Welcome back to coffee number five. My coffee is ready, and I’m ready for this conversation. So if you’re a brand, you want to stay tuned and wait for this talk, because we’re going to be talking about all those questions that you always had about retail and you never knew who to ask. So I want to introduce you to my good friend Sarah. 

00:26
Sarah Chung
I will. 

00:28
Lara Schmoisman
Sarah has a very long trajectory. She. I mean, you’ve been featured everywhere. You’ve been working in the beauty industry for a long time. We’re not gonna age ourselves here, but we’re forever young. Yes. And, well, being in the beauty industry, we have to. We need to look the part a little. But also, Sara does something that is so super interesting to me, and I want to ask all these questions. So what’s a better place to do all these questions than in my podcast and to share it with you? So, Sara, you are a category builder. You call it category builder. What? A category builder. 

01:13
Sarah Chung
A category builder, I think, is, you know, we’re a brand advocate, so we work with all kinds of brands. But as I was mentioning to you, it’s really hard for a brand to come in and say, hey, we want to make the next big brand in mature skin, or we want to make the next big brand of textured hair, because it really requires, like, an ecosystem that is going to uplift and enable that brand to succeed. And so we work on multiple fronts. So we definitely work with retailers to understand new categories and how that category should be presented in their stores, on their.com, and making sure that they’re really serving all of their consumer base. And we also leverage events and campaigns to build excitement and virality around every category. 

02:04
Sarah Chung
So I’m currently having a 360 moment because as I mentioned to you, when landing first started, we launched the first wave of K Beauty. We launched over 80 korean beauty brands in retail. I’ve been known to be, not to age ourselves, but I have been known to be the godmother of K beauty. 

02:28
Lara Schmoisman
That’s not a bad name to have. 

02:30
Sarah Chung
Yes. And I like that because I’m passionate about helping entrepreneurs succeed. And I think being an entrepreneur myself, I understand a brand founder and what they’re facing. And so, yeah, we build categories, and we’re currently in the second wave of K beauty, where actually, retailers had taken a step back from this category. But TikTok, Amazon, you know, the consumers are saying they really want new products and innovation from Korea. And I think in 2025, you’re gonna see an explosion of K beauty. It’s traditionally been thought of just skincare, but I think it’s gonna touch color, it’s gonna touch body, it’s gonna touch hair, it’s gonna touch fragrance. And so we’re super excited. 

03:22
Lara Schmoisman
That’s so exciting. And you guys, when you talk to me or you listen to me, and when I always, I know that I say the word omnichannel a little too much, but it’s really important. It’s really important for brand awareness and for early stage brands or even middle stage brands. I talked to a lot of brands as a marketing agency. When I set the foundation for the brand, I always talk about, this is like putting a billboard on the street. You need people to pass and to see your brand. You need to get that brand awareness. You need to be in TikTok, you need to be instagram, you need to have a strong website, you need to have an organic volume of people finding you, but also need to have a budget for ads. 

04:09
Sarah Chung
Absolutely. 

04:10
Lara Schmoisman
But at the same time, you need to have a clear, be very clear what your brand is. Because going to retail is a completely different story than starting BTC. Your commitments are going to be different. And, I mean, the monies that you’re going to have to put out there are different. So are you prepared for all that? So, Sara, what does it take for a brand to be ready to go retail? 

04:38
Sarah Chung
I think, I mean, all of what you said, I think building a community around your brand, whether it’s online, through your email, that’s important, because today retailers are looking at brands and saying, how can this brand help me bring in more customers? So it used to be okay. It’s like, if you build it, they will come, right? Like, as long as I put my product on a shelf, I’m going to be a success. But it’s really flipped, right? Because brands are, can be even better than retailers at increasing their share of voice. 

05:14
Sarah Chung
And so I think every brand should look at a retailer and think, first and foremost, not let me try to convince this retailer how great my brand is, but let me try to communicate to the retailer how I’m going to help them grow their business through the types of people that my brand resonates with. And I think it’s a completely different mindset of what, you know, how we’re used to approaching things. 

05:37
Lara Schmoisman
Yeah. And also because it’s all right now for me, it’s all about the social proof and connecting with your community and building that community. Even I can see that people are getting a little tired of influencers. They don’t trust those influencers as much as they used to. The public. And the customer is learns. Learn how to read through the lines. 

06:03
Sarah Chung
Yes. And I think that customers, they’re so savvy. Right. Someone asked me recently what is the best advice I could give to a brand? And I would say you have to work really hard to earn your place on a customer shelf. Yep. You know, and not because they’re smart, they know what works for them, they know what they like, and their dollars are precious. And so make sure you are providing that value and you are consistently, you know, in conversation with them. Which is where I think it goes back to the virality and retail, it is a completely different game. Right. Because retail, you don’t have all the space and time to communicate your value as you would on TikTok, as you would on a, you know, a website. And I think packaging then becomes super important. 

06:50
Sarah Chung
It’s like you need to, like sell with in, within 5 seconds, draw them in. Your brand has to tell a story with how it’s placed. I think that’s something that brands don’t necessarily think about because they’re used to selling their products, you know, in their own.com or d, two c channels, as you mentioned. And, and then really understanding the levers within that retailer. And each retailer is different of what they can do to elevate their brand within that space. And that’s a completely different also, like economics, as you mentioned, and a lot of brands go into it. Nothing. Understanding the commitments that it will take and that it’s not an overnight thing. I would say it probably takes a good five years for most brands to build a profitable business within a retailer. 

07:39
Lara Schmoisman
Let me ask you a question, because it’s something that I’ve been trying to educate myself more to be able to help my brands and my clients, I will say, because when you go to retail, there are so many factors. There’s going to be marketing commitments that you have with retail. You’re gonna have also you need to educate, and that’s something that I try to help from the marketing teams. Yeah, you need to educate the people who actually gonna be selling your products. 

08:08
Sarah Chung
Yeah. 

08:08
Lara Schmoisman
Also you need to create events in the places that you sell your products. 

08:14
Sarah Chung
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that retail, you have so many audiences, right. Because as you said, you have the consumer, but you also have the in store associates and the managers, and they’re your biggest advocates. So, as you know, we have a education app called Beauty Fluent. And it’s designed to enable sales associates to sell better and to represent your brand better. And another audience, what do you do. 

08:41
Lara Schmoisman
To educate those people? 

08:44
Sarah Chung
So we try to make it easy for them. Right? Because you have 5 seconds, a customer asks you, hey, tell me about this product. Our app, you can barcode scan a product and it tells you how do you demo this? What are the ingredients? What are the benefits? What are, you know, what is this a dupe of? What can you, how do you use this in a kind of cool and what’s a hack for it? And we also have partnerships with companies like clear for me. So you can click on an ingredient and you can explain to the customer, this is what this ingredient does. And we have a partnership with Match my makeup, which has become one of like our biggest features. And you put in the foundation shade that you currently use in the brand you use. 

09:26
Sarah Chung
And then it gives you a recommendation of the shade that you would be in a new line. Because I mean, sales associates are required to, are expected to know so much, right? They’re like expected to be experts. And what is, you know, what’s vegan, what’s good for my skin type, color match me, what’s good for my hair. And we really see beauty Flint as a way to help them do their job better. And and then going back to what you said about like eventing, it’s about creating excitement around your brand. We just, did a series of activations for one of our brands, Cosrx. And when you go in with an event and activation and you help co sell on the floor, then that store manager starts to feel like, okay, this brand is supporting me. 

10:16
Sarah Chung
This brand is helping me to do my job better, increase sales. And now we have a loyal store manager. We have a team that’s excited about explaining who this brand is and really like recommending it in the proper way. So I think that’s also important. And then in store marketing, every retailer has different channels, like whether it’s email, whether it’s promotions, whether it’s sampling programs, and you really have to be aggressive about it as soon as you get in because I think a big mistake that a lot of brands make is they kind of sit back and say, okay, I’m going to let the retailer tell me what I should do. 

10:52
Sarah Chung
And by the time that comes around, your productivity on shelf may already be, you know, tinking and, you know, it’s raising a red flag because I think the worst scenario is not ever getting into retail. It’s, it’s getting exited. So I think that’s, you’re planning day one. You’re planning, you know, minus, you know, 50 days of how you’re going to increase sell through once you’re on shelf. 

11:17
Lara Schmoisman
Do you, do you recommend people to go and try directly for Sephora or Ultra or you start with smaller just to get a little more proof of concept? 

11:29
Sarah Chung
I think it depends on the brand. There are some, as I mentioned, like K beauty brands that have built tremendous virality on TikTok and are the number one serum on Amazon, the number one eye treatment. And then I think, okay, you’ve, you’ve created some groundswell around your product and your brand. And so maybe the first step can be a larger retailer like a Sephora and ulta. But I think if you’re just starting out, finding and connecting with your community is, it’s easier at smaller locations where, because sometimes, and Laura, like, I don’t know if you’ve, you face this, like you have an idea of what your brand is and who you want it to be, but sometimes the consumer tells you, no, it’s something different. 

12:14
Lara Schmoisman
Exactly. That. We see it all the time. We see it all the time with our clients. And that’s why you need to do a lot of tests and be open to make mistakes at the beginning. 

12:27
Sarah Chung
Absolutely. And I think that’s why if you start in a smaller retailer where you have a good relationship, you can see, okay, what are the, you know, what are the benefits that really resonate with the customer? What are the promotions? That’s right. For my brand. And we have a lot of brands that launch on, you know, online only retailers first. Because you get more time and space to explain your story. 

12:52
Lara Schmoisman
Yeah, absolutely. There are a lot of services out there that they offer that they’re going to create retail in store experiences. How do you feel about those services? Because they’re expensive for brands. 

13:07
Sarah Chung
I think it definitely should be a part of the mix when I think when you do, it is important because it is expensive. And so you may not get the ROI on day one if you’re doing in store eventing and activations. But I definitely feel like it’s necessary because as I kind of going back to, retailers want you to be driving traffic and converting their customers when you’re in store. And activations are a great way for you to partner with retailers to like, okay, let’s target your top 25 doors and let’s make sure that our brand is meeting its productivity goals. Let’s, you know, create exciting experiences for your customers. When they come into doors. So I would kind of see it that way of this is a service that you can do in partnership with a retailer rather than, you know, day one. 

14:04
Sarah Chung
It’s going to result in, you know, tremendous sales for you. 

14:08
Lara Schmoisman
Okay. That, that’s really important to know. And it’s also, it’s understand that you always have to have seeding money and budget for these things. It’s not going to be for free and it’s not. And you should be a little concerned about if you are a success overnight because then you might have inventory many times steady. It’s better because it is, it’s really concerning when. And actually, for example, in Amazon, if you are out of stock, Amazon actually you’re, you lose ranking. 

14:45
Sarah Chung
Yeah. 

14:47
Lara Schmoisman
So you need to make sure that you have all these operation parts in place. 

14:53
Sarah Chung
And I think sometimes we’ll say, you know, obviously every brand’s dream is to get a dedicated section or an end cap, but I would say you have to be really confident. You have to have a lot of money to market and make sure that you’re earning that space. And I think sometimes for brands it’s better to like, hey, let’s get five products, let’s identify your hero, SKU, and let’s start building sales around the products first, rather than spending a lot of money for fixturing and for, you know, your own space where no one else can help you. And so I definitely feel like there have been cases where brands have taken on a bit more than they could. 

15:42
Lara Schmoisman
Yes. 

15:43
Sarah Chung
Yeah. Because it’s like, hey, if you had only had maybe 25% of your assortment, then 80% of your sales is coming from two products, it would have been a lot better than now you’re taking up two shelves. 

15:56
Lara Schmoisman
But also there is a whole thing about shelf life and cost of manufacturing, which is high. So you need as a brand to be able to negotiate all your costs, to be able to switch some of that money to have it for retail and be retail ready. 

16:17
Sarah Chung
Yes. Yeah. Because also, you know, quite frankly, the margins are slimmer when you go into your retail. 

16:23
Lara Schmoisman
A lot slimmer. 

16:25
Sarah Chung
Yes. 

16:25
Lara Schmoisman
I have a question for you. Let’s debunk some myth here because, yeah, because like I hear for so many brands, and I’m gonna tell you what I think later, but it’s going into Amazon a good idea or a bad idea for a brand or going online in other retailers. 

16:52
Sarah Chung
I think it’s a good idea. I think you need to be smart about it because too many brands are going on Amazon and the worst case situation is no one buys your product, but actually a really bad situation is your price integrity and your brand integrity is hurt by resellers or other people. 

17:13
Lara Schmoisman
Absolutely. Thank you for that. Actually, I think that there are a lot of consumers out there that they just buy in Amazon nowadays. Also because of locations they are in some places that they don’t have the access to the stores that they want to have these products and they do have a Prime account and they want to have their products and not pay for shipping and get it fast. 

17:37
Sarah Chung
It almost, I mean, to me, Amazon has become like, is this brand a legitimate brand? You know, is it available on Amazon? So I do think that you need to own your presence there. But I also think you have to gate it very well because, you know, we have brands that have become extremely successful on Amazon and now they’re dealing with undercutting, like they can’t get that buy box because other people are undercutting them. 

18:00
Lara Schmoisman
Well, I seen that a lot happening and I see that it happened for two reasons. First of all, they wholesale their brands to people that they’re selling Amazon. Yeah. And second, they were too late in Amazon. So for people, they, there are people in Amazon that they’re looking for these brands that they’re not in Amazon and take place. So to me early on, you need to be in Amazon. You can always control the narrative. And I will not have accept Prime Day, probably a lower price on Amazon than in your website. Yes, but you need to control the narrative. I mean, controlling the narrative is who you let sell your products. 

18:44
Sarah Chung
Yes. I think it’s hard. I mean, going back to like our k beauty brand, it’s hard because they’re already in different markets and so it’s a bit harder to control who gets ahold of these products. And then another issue that I did want to mention is, counterfeiting. So that’s become a huge issue where, you know, consumers are very wary of, like, especially with, like, if it’s a higher price point, if this is a real product, if it’s genuine. And I think that’s where retailers can help because they provide that level of guarantee that this is an authentic product. We’re getting it from the brand because I’ve heard brands say, like, the counterfeits are so good, they don’t even, they can’t even tell themselves, yeah, they are. 

19:30
Lara Schmoisman
When you try the products that quality is not the same. 

19:34
Sarah Chung
Yes. It’s all watered down. So I think there’s a lot of things to be careful about. 

19:42
Lara Schmoisman
Yeah. Absolutely. Let’s also talk about, when we talk about like, how important is for a brand to have PR, because I seen a lot of brands out there or they coming to us and say, I want pr, and realize, and with me, you get what you see and you’re not ready for pr. Your ecosystem is not in place. PR is a lot of work. It’s not cheap for a brand. How much you think PR helps a brand get into retail? Because that’s another myth, that if you have good pr, you’re going to get into retail faster. 

20:24
Sarah Chung
I think it can help because you’re showing that editors like your product if they’re covering it, but I don’t think it helps you succeed in retail. Right. Like, I think you can write, you can have amazing press, but when that customer is in store, what is going to make them buy is not, you know, an article that was written about you. What is going to make them buy is an associate recommending it a, you know, packaging that just sells itself. And so I think PR two, and you know this better than anyone, it’s a long game, right? It’s a long game. So it’s one of the tools to elevate your brand and to get awareness. But it’s not a magic bullet, I would say, and especially for retail, I think you’re playing a different game when you’re in store. 

21:18
Sarah Chung
But I do think, you know, it’s having some pr and press about your products and having someone at other than yourself advocating for you in that way, it’s a positive, it’s not a guarantee that you’re going to get in with that. But I think it definitely adds more. 

21:37
Lara Schmoisman
To your story and to your authority as a brand. 

21:40
Sarah Chung
Yes. Yes. Because someone else has tested it, someone else has said something, what they like about it, what they don’t like about it. And so those, I think retailers do. Look at that. 

21:51
Lara Schmoisman
One more last question before we go, because a lot of brands are opting to have rewards plans and systems. What do you think about those? 

22:03
Sarah Chung
I think it depends on the brand because that’s another system that you have to manage, that you have to set up that also costs money. Is your product honestly a brand that’s going to be repurchased? 

22:17
Lara Schmoisman
Yeah. Building loyalty. 

22:20
Sarah Chung
Yes, because there are brands and I don’t think, you know, you don’t have to get a customer at a retailer to buy your product like once a month, even once a quarter. 

22:32
Lara Schmoisman
Right. 

22:32
Sarah Chung
Because there’s a lot of experimenters and you can build a great business with experimenters. But if you go that rewards route, you’re kind of saying, oh, I think that based on, you know, I think that my customer is going to continue to buy from me and giving rewards is like a loyalty play. And I’m not sure if that’s right for every brand. 

22:57
Lara Schmoisman
No, it’s not. You need to use the data. To me, we do this for our clients to create all the rewards programs and email marketing, which again, is a lot of work and it costs money, but need to see the lifetime. How many times people are. Use your data and see people are recurrent buyers or not. 

23:18
Sarah Chung
Yeah, I mean, Laura, like, how many products do you think you regularly repurchase? 

23:24
Lara Schmoisman
Oh, I have a few that I am very loyal to. 

23:27
Sarah Chung
I think I have, I think I have like six. Right. I have like six products and brands that I’ll, I keep going back to, but then other things. I’m constantly buying new things because you. 

23:37
Lara Schmoisman
Don’T, didn’t find the one that you love and you find it. Last question. I promise. I know that we’re running out subscription boxes. How do you feel about all the subscription boxes for beauty products? Again, for the founders out there, subscription boxes, it’s an investment for a brand. 

23:56
Sarah Chung
Yes, it is. I love subscription boxes. I think they’re a great Discovery channel. We work with all of them. I subscribe to all of them. I think it’s a way for someone to come to me passively and say, hey, here are some new cool things that you might like. And I think it’s a great way. Like, I really believe in sampling. If you believe in your product, you should want to get it into the hands of potential customers. And so I think it’s a plus. But I know that, yeah, the economics can be a bit tough, but I think if you can afford it’s a long game. 

24:34
Lara Schmoisman
Subscription box is a long game. Someone who tried subscription boxes, you know that people is in the market of the subscription boxes because probably they’re not going to go immediately by your product. But what can happen is that in a few months of, in a year, they’re in a store and they see their products say, oh, I used to like this one. 

24:54
Sarah Chung
Yes, yes, no. And I think so we’re really, next year, we’re really pushing big into kits and to like travel sizes because that’s also like a really great Discovery Channel. And I think not enough brands are creating trial sizes where people can go in. We’ve done like some of our most successful retail partnerships with trial sizes, and it converts customers into the full size. 

25:20
Lara Schmoisman
That’s incredible. And it’s really good information for brands to have. Sara, thank you so much for spending time with us and to be so generous with information. 

25:32
Sarah Chung
Well, thank you so much for having me. This is long overdue. I wish were physically together with coffee. 

25:38
Lara Schmoisman
Absolutely. We can do that soon. All right, guys. And to you. I will see you next week with more coffee. Number five.