I’m good. How are you? 

00:37
Lara Schmoisman
I’m good. I’m so happy to have you here. I mean, I don’t have to introduce you. Everyone knows you, but I will let you give you the Cliff Notes on who you are and what you did, because you did so much. 

00:54
Lorne Lucree
Well, thank you for having me. I’m so excited to be here. So I. And Lauren, I’ve been working in beauty since 2008, but always been a product junkie, so really built my career around just a constant curiosity of product and beauty and how can people interact with it and helping people to feel more confident. So worked everywhere from L’Oreal and global marketing to Clinique and product development to luxury brand partners and true kind of innovation and brand creation and scaling up. Partnered with retailers like Sephora and Ulta and blue mercury, etc. And then manufacturing at Boyne Beauty, the largest beauty and personal care contract manufacturer. So led all the R and D and innovation teams there and then most recently at Unilever Prestige and Tatcha, touching product development and bringing a lot of those best practices to the. To the prestige portfolio. 

01:45
Lorne Lucree
And then most recently, taking that on the road and on my own with the lunch required Coyote, which is my own consulting agency, helping brands of. Of all sizes help to brands, private equity contract manufacturers, et cetera, helping to bring value where I can, based on my experience. 

02:04
Lara Schmoisman
Yeah, that’s a lot of experience. But also what I love about you is that you’ve done everything. Like I always say that I did everything in marketing, SEO. I did it. The only thing I cannot do is code, but I understand enough to know when it’s not doing their work. But anyway, and that’s, I think something really important to be a consultant and to say that, okay, I did this. So understand that, like, for example, I never realized and this, the secret is out that I have my little skincare line and I never realized. Thank you. It makes me such a much better marketer because I went through all that process. Not only I understand better my clients, also I understand how marketing can come from the beginning of just the formulation and how we can start ingredients. 

02:59
Lara Schmoisman
There is something that people, I don’t think people don’t talk enough about the competition. 

03:05
Lorne Lucree
It’s, it’s like it’s so related and I think having those, that’s why I’ve done what I’ve done. But I feel like it’s a bit of, especially in this new world where consumers are so engaged. You’re seeing it probably with your skincare line of like they’re engaged not only the, in the aesthetics, your story, but also in the ingredients, the technology, the claim. Like it’s not no longer, it’s no longer just one thing. It’s all these things together and you have to start thinking about it from the genesis. And I think, you know, I’m advising some brands in the ULTA accelerator currently and it’s like what I’ve really encouraged them to do is take a big step back and think about their, I call it like innovation architecture. But like who their brand is one thing. They’ve got all got amazing founder stories, et cetera. 

03:47
Lorne Lucree
But how does that translate into product. Your ingredient selections, your packaging choices, your sustainability choices, your. All those, your click, your testing, you’re going to do all these things that all is related and all has to tell one story to break through for the consumer. And if it doesn’t, it’s hard to go back. So it’s like how do you do that in a really thoughtful way as you’re building brands? Yeah. 

04:06
Lara Schmoisman
I was talking yesterday to a founder say you’re going to have to make tough decisions because you an early stage brands probably you don’t want to have huge MIQs and their companies in packaging that they’re not gonna, you’re gonna have to make difficult decisions how sustainable you can be in what you can afford. 

04:25
Lorne Lucree
Absolutely, absolutely. And that’s a key area where people, where I’ve seen brands really struggle because it’s, you know, we did, I did a lot of work in previous lives on ESG and creating that strategy and what I realized is like you could go bananas like trying to do everything and not accomplish anything within the world of sustainability. Everybody wants to be sustainable, but it’s something like that. It really comes down to hard choices and really understanding what’s right for your brand, what’s right for your consumers and how do you prioritize and understand that you might not get to something for maybe three to five years until you scale a bit, you have more money to spend, you can meet the MOQ requirements, etc. 

04:59
Lorne Lucree
But like being transparent with yourself and your investors and your consumers with that this is a, this is all kind of a moving target and not, you know, not trying to do everything at once. It’s a trap that everybody also what. 

05:11
Lara Schmoisman
One of the things that I realized, and I’ve been honing on this a lot lately, is how we use a competitive market. Like, even for SEO, when we work on keywords, I always say we have our DNA keywords or who we are as a brand. The keywords that we want to rank for that they are more trending keywords. But also we need to know where our competition is 100%. But it happened the same with ingredients. When you are formulating, you need to know who is your competition, what ingredients are you using? How are we going to be similar? But how are we going to be different too? 

05:49
Lorne Lucree
Absolutely. Absolutely. And the, and the. And I see that most often manifests itself in the type of claims and consumer testing that you would be, that these brands would be probably pursuing and spending money for, because that’s how the raw materials would be brought to life. And I think it’s it. That’s actually where I think you can do really bring your life brand to life uniquely. But you have to have a handle on the competition. So, you know, I think about examples of like, you know, I always bring up Charlotte Tilbury because I think she’s an interesting example, like, you know, in a sea of 95% immediate hydration. But, you know, like, you know, these clinicals kind of, you know, stock clinicals, as I call them. You know, she’s coming out with claims like, you know, 95% felt their skin looked unreal. 

06:34
Lorne Lucree
And it’s like nobody’s questioning like what unreal looks like, but they like it of like, oh, that feels exciting and new and whatever it might be. So at least it’s like something. But that comes from an understanding of what the category having those key claims that you have to have. But then some of those that also make you new and different and stand out within your competitive set. For sure. Yeah, yeah. 

06:53
Lara Schmoisman
Because also otherwise you end up with a brand that is going to be similar to your competition, that already has a brand awareness and nobody needs. 

07:03
Lorne Lucree
No, exactly. And you, and then you’re just, it’s the same as there’s nothing usually you need to break through. And it’s, it’s really challenging for sure. 

07:12
Lara Schmoisman
So when you advise brand, and this is something that I get asked all the time. How do you make your. I mean I can do it from my side, from the brand different, but differentiation. But what about the product? How do you create the product that is unique and exciting? 

07:30
Lorne Lucree
So this is where it’s, it really comes back to, you know, in this, in. Most of the brands that I’m interfacing with are a lot of founder driven and it comes back to like who they are and ensuring that gets pulled through their vision gets pulled through to the products. And I often think about it as like the magic of chemistry. And working with chemist is that you know, they are all numbers and percentages and you know, most often founders or creative individuals are like you know, just the kind of this, you know, ethereal or like, you know, kind of like a bit more creative up in the air trying to. 

08:08
Lara Schmoisman
Until they need to start dealing with operations. 

08:11
Lorne Lucree
Fair enough. Totally. Yes. So my job is to kind of find this meeting in the middle and to be able to almost be a translator in some ways. And I think it becomes a much more of like really understanding the founder and their vision and who they are. And so it’s like if I’m working with a hairdresser, it’s like sometimes I’ve seen them like jump to like well, I just need a, you know, I just need a, you know the way leave in conditioner just knock it off. And I’m like, but is that you? Like I granted yes, we need a leave in conditioner. I get it. 

08:38
Lorne Lucree
But like what does that mean to you and how do you think about it and how do you use it and what do you like what are the sensory aspects, et cetera and or like what are like hacks that you use like at the salon like or at the backstage, like what are those like what products are you combining and to get that perfect look that maybe doesn’t exist that you take for granted, that you just add one plus one and this equals this new product. That that product could be your hero breakthrough product that doesn’t exist on the market currently. So it’s like, it’s a lot of that again going back to the consumer, the founder, who is ultimately probably the consumer in many ways and really understanding and pulling that through. 

09:13
Lara Schmoisman
Yeah, but also you need to find out that there is a market for it. And that’s where the research part comes into it. Because I see in brands that they either only something with the fragrance that the founder loves and nobody else does 100%. 

09:28
Lorne Lucree
So that’s like, and that’s where, you know, I think the having the sensitivity to the market and what’s happening and what’s selling in the retail spaces that we want to be in is so crucial. And to your point, understanding that competitive center what’s happening because I think then you ground it in a volume opportunity, size of the prize and it’s the meeting of those. And I think where I’ve seen brands go astray is when you only follow size of the prize and say, listen, like, you know, for example, like bronzing drops, like oh God, like do we really need. Like how, like we get it. It’s a growing market. 

10:02
Lorne Lucree
But also like how at a certain point when you’re the, you know, the 50th to the market, how are you going to be truly differentiated with that and how do you break through with that versus trying to launching something new or taking something another risk. So I think it’s the marriage of those two things together of understanding then how do you think about it imbalancing too, like having nice high volume, maybe more, it’s less innovative, maybe a bit less breakthrough or disruptive skews with those high volume or with those more disruptive innovative SKUs and kind of making sure you have a nice balance of both, that’s going to engage but also sustain your business. 

10:36
Lara Schmoisman
What do you think that there is the biggest opportunity for a young brand trying to go over the whole market or trying because I. Or niche because many times I found myself asking these questions. Who is your target audience? Well, it’s a brand that works for everyone. Yeah, but you don’t have the budget to go after everyone. 

11:00
Lorne Lucree
Yes, well, it’s wild. Like, I mean when we launched IGK, which was 2016 with Sephora, we launched with 21 SKUs at one time, which is like unheard of now. But it was a different world. It was like a full complete hair care line out the gate, 21 SKUs. Now if you launched with 5, 6, like that’s a lot I think at this, in this day and age. And so yes, I think you have to because again, you marry with like what’s gonna. Where, you know, attention spans are limited, resources are limited. What do you, where are you gonna place your bets? And I was actually just having a discussion with a emerging brand right before this. 

11:37
Lorne Lucree
We’re talking about that of like what, you know, what is going to be that one product that’s going to put you on the map, that’s going to get you that virality that’s going to be going to get people talking about you and then you can start to build out from there. And so thinking about it. So that’s, you know, if I think about brands, you know, young brands, the biggest thing they can do is really think about that one product that’s going to be their hero and really focus I think there and maximize their efforts there and make sure that was, that’s going to break through. 

12:02
Lara Schmoisman
And. But also there is this belief that retail won’t take a brand with one or two skills. How true is that? 

12:13
Lorne Lucree
I think it’s. It depends honestly. So I think about. You think about like Magic Molecule which was like one of those viral. They put hypochlorous acid on the, on the map of this kind of, you know, magic ingredient. Similar launching at a similar time. When Tower 28 launched their hydrochloric acid SOS spray, they just got distribution in Ulta with a single sku. But this kind of hero in demand skew. I think the retailers are changing and evolving the way they think because with competitors like TikTok Shop where you can hit with just one skew, I think they’re going to have to be competitive. So how they think about that and where the shelf slice house displayed and merchandise, I think that will be a challenge for them because usually it’s housed in kind of a brand, you know, brand block, whatever it is. 

12:54
Lorne Lucree
But I think they’re going to move more in that direction. Yeah, it’s hard. 

12:57
Lara Schmoisman
They’re going to have to reinvent the shelves. 

13:00
Lorne Lucree
Absolutely, absolutely. And the way that they think about it and how they bring in it’s. And how they’re engaging the customer. But again, you know, customers driving this demand, you know, ultra support are not driving demand to shelf. It’s the brands that are doing it. Leveraging social. These social levers. And I think it’s. They have to listen to them and they are. And so it’s like how do you move? How do you marry those things together when you have these kind of other. Quick, quick to market. 

13:23
Lara Schmoisman
There is another challenge there that it’s the education for the sales people. 

13:30
Lorne Lucree
Totally. 

13:31
Lara Schmoisman
Having 20 brands in one shelf. Well, in a foot of a shelf. It’s going to be really challenging for the salespeople to understand all the products. 

13:43
Lorne Lucree
Absolutely. It’s a, it’s a great point. And that field education is critical. I mean I think that’s where, you know, it’s. If you don’t have them championing it or understanding what it is and selling, I Mean top. It has top of mind. It’s a huge, it could be a huge loss to your point. So yeah, you’re not, if there is a risk of you not having the Reese, you know, having that strong social draw in, you know, the field is definitely going to be critical for that engagement for sure. 

14:07
Lara Schmoisman
Well, I mean I remember there was a time like Sephora and other bigger retailers, they really want to support indie brands and they will give like a few spaces in some stores. But indie brands weren’t able to understand back then the importance of training staff and to educating and say oh, we’re in retail. So that’s it. And then what happened? They had to buy back the inventory and. Yeah, go ahead. 

14:43
Lorne Lucree
No, but I think it’s also the understanding the importance but also the funds required. I mean the investment required for field is massive. I mean getting in, there’s, you know, things, you know, outsource field teams that you can engage with. But even that is, it’s a really costly. So it’s not just getting product on shelf. The costs are really in the field. To your point of like having them getting them engaged and what you see with that it takes to educate. You know, it’s like everything from like you know, education in a box with an iPad showing. It’s like it’s big investments to get them excited and engaged. Yes. 

15:20
Lara Schmoisman
And I think that’s a lot of early stage brands. They don’t realize this, that their dreams in Sephora and as an early stage brand. I don’t know, I don’t want to be in Sephora yet. At least it’s a lot. 

15:34
Lorne Lucree
Yeah, yeah, it’s a, it’s a big commitment and if you don’t have the again, it comes back to them and I think they’ll tell you that as well. It’s like if the demand is not there, it’s going to be a big investment for nothing. So if you’re not and the demand needs to be supported by field and social and have you firing on all cylinders. And so I think it’s better to take it slow and steady. For sure. To your point. 

15:54
Lara Schmoisman
Yeah, it’s growing pains but you need to grow and scale step by step. I would be very scared of having a huge order because that, I mean we can get into financing. You’re gonna have to ask, get money because you are, you’re gonna have to buy inventory, you’re gonna have to buy more packaging, you’re gonna have shipping. Nobody talks about the shipping cost. 

16:22
Lorne Lucree
It’s a lot. It’s a lot. And especially if it’s like how early you are because it’s like you also remember like you’re also probably still kind of navigating through some of the product market fits. Yeah. Dynamics. And so there’s not, once you get that opportunity to launch on a Sephora Ultra or Target or whatever it is like you don’t really get one chance and it’s like if everything isn’t final, that’s not a place to learn. That’s a place to like explode and grow and scale quickly. So if all that isn’t in line as well, like you’re, it’s, it’s very high risk for sure. Both financially and from a brand perspective. Yeah. 

16:58
Lara Schmoisman
One of the things I always talk with brands is like brands come to me and say I want pr. And I say, is your marketing ready to have pr? 

17:07
Lorne Lucree
Yeah. 

17:09
Lara Schmoisman
PR is the support of marketing. PR cannot come first because if your marketing cannot support you, what do you do in all this pr? PR doesn’t translate into sales. 

17:20
Lorne Lucree
It doesn’t and it doesn’t feel, I’ve seen it firsthand, like when you can do the biggest activations and spend millions of dollars on these things. But if the marketing isn’t sound of the idea, isn’t breakthrough, if all of that isn’t worked out, it’s just another pop up, it’s just another, you know, it’s just another sampling and you lose all that groundswell of excitement. It’s false, flat because the marketing isn’t, isn’t there to list it. Yeah. 

17:49
Lara Schmoisman
It’s a funnel that you need to create your funnels. Be ready to capture all that PR and all that. Absolutely the same with TikTok shop. I would love to hear what your thoughts are on TikTok shop. 

18:03
Lorne Lucree
I think it’s really, I mean from, from what I, you know, what, you know, what I’ve seen and understand. I think that this is like it is what’s, it’s further democratizing the whole beauty space. So again it’s allowing brands to break through. But it’s, and one of those kind of, it’s impulse and it is a wide net with some of these stats that I think are so fascinating is like it’s, you know, the Nano Influencers on TikTok Shop or TikTok are just as impactful as the mega influencers to Drive sales and drive sales to TikTok shop. And I think that’s so fascinating because it is truly again that kind of like if. If people are able to talk about it in a way that’s compelling, then you’re going to sell no matter what. Which is amazing. I think it’s truly. 

18:55
Lorne Lucree
Then again, how do you figure out the right assortment for TikTok shop? What feels right for that consumer versus, you know, versus an Ulta or Sephora? What feels right for that space and then again how you’re driving it in terms of like demand and capturing that flywheel effect. So it’s. It’s the. Yeah. 

19:14
Lara Schmoisman
My fascination with TikTok and I think that it came at the right time that every grass was super green instagram, in Facebook and it make it more real. So even the beauty industry is getting more real. 

19:30
Lorne Lucree
Yes, yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And. And the amount of. I mean were taught you we heard yesterday like the amount of content that’s required now is insane. Insane. Which naturally lends itself to being, you know, not every. Everything is a bit rough and ready. Like, you know, and that’s actually the way it should be now. Like it needs to be real and authentic and credible and like it’s okay to be on the fly and not perfect. You know, I think some of this. It’s interesting some of the stats I’ve seen with the political campaigns. It’s like even now of how quickly things are moving from a. Something happens. They get approval within 20 minutes, they have content up within the hour, which is like insane. Even at that level, on that scale which I, you know, beauty brands insane are operating with it. 

20:11
Lara Schmoisman
So we recently became TikTok shop partners as an agency which is great. It’s. It help us to navigate for our clients. But something that also make me understand not everyone is TikTok shop ready. You have. 

20:26
Lorne Lucree
Okay. 

20:27
Lara Schmoisman
You have tons of content. If you cannot produce that content to be. It’s impossible to succeed. 

20:35
Lorne Lucree
That’s. And do they. And in those. I’m so. I’m fascinated to hear about this because I guess when they were. Did they tell you kind of the profiles of the brands that will be that they feel like will be successful beyond having content, did they give you any other indicators or kind of brands that would be that are right for TikTok shop now? 

20:50
Lara Schmoisman
I think that every brand could be right for TikTok shop. It’s a difficult platform to use and to navigate. I think it’s all about the quality of content, but it’s about Producing content. Producing content and also to sponsor the content. I was fascinated by that brand always and how innovative in the market it was at the time. What was the ethos that you feel like made the difference? 

21:22
Lorne Lucree
Yeah, I feel like the, you know, it was really a brand founded and True, you know, Japanese skincare. The approach to Japanese skincare is truly unique in terms of the way that they think about formulating and the way that they think about the skin and the product experience. It’s a very different. It’s fascinating to me because I think we almost, we most often think about like cultural sensitivities, more so demonstrable things like color trends, like the way makeup trends or things like that, but like also the way that products are formulated are also different and that’s beyond texture and fun k beauty thing, you know, ingredients and things like that. You know, the Japanese approach to skincare is like truly around actually respecting the barrier of the skin barrier. 

22:11
Lorne Lucree
So that’s why, that’s how you get a lot of that beautiful sensorial feel and doing that for ages before anybody was talking about barrier, before Skinfix was blowing up barrier and everybody was thinking everyone was talking about skin barrier. Everyone is talking about it was truly utilizing ingredients that helped to both repair and to strengthen the skin barrier. Because the idea is that no active ingredients is going to work if you don’t have a healthy barrier. And having a healthy barrier then allows you to formulate with sometimes less or less, a less irritating actives to get the similar or better results, which I think is really magic. So it’s like those things together because I often think we think about, you know, skincare sometimes as like an ordinary approach where it’s like just more active the better. 

22:54
Lorne Lucree
Just like, you know, percentages, actives loaded on, et cetera. And that’s going to be efficacious. And it’s like it’s got to work hand in hand with skin health and the individual skin condition. And so I think that’s where, if I think about the Japanese formula approach, that’s where they really bring those two worlds together. And so that’s where you get this effect of like, I know it’s working, I feel it’s working. It’s beautiful to work. Like, it’s just, it’s kind of like I can’t put my finger on it, but I just look and feel better when I’m using these products. And I think that’s something that the Tatcha and other Japanese skincare brands have really brought to life. 

23:25
Lara Schmoisman
But I think Tasha did something really right which is not getting lost in translation. Even though have that Japanese sensitivity. It was very appealing to the US market for sure. 

23:38
Lorne Lucree
For sure. I mean and then you bring in cues like you know, all the imagery, the branding, the packaging, all that kind of then further supports this whole brand idea as were talking about at the beginning. It’s like never just one thing and it’s like all these things coming together of like ensuring the product, the marketing, the brand ideas is flowing through all those parts and pieces. And so you know you think about overall it’s like the packaging is inspired by the natsume the you know, the actually traditional packaging that houses tea which is very important the culture. So it has this haptic rounded packaging that feels really beautiful in your hand. The spoon as well. The you know, then the ingredients chosen all have a. Have a really strong heritage story as well. So I think all those. 

24:20
Lorne Lucree
And then the you know, the textures are beautiful. They’re done in a truly Japanese, the Japanese skincare approach. So I think all these parts and pieces come together to form this really finished product that is consistent and has a really strong equity versus potentially one of those things dropping out which would then it would change the experience where you would start to question some of those products in a package that was maybe stock. You’re like okay, I lose a bit of the whole magic piece of it. 

24:49
Lara Schmoisman
It’s really thoughtful case for example, you’re talking about this beautiful packaging. This beautiful packaging can be only done a brand that it. It’s very unique packaging. So it’s custom made. You can just purchase it and have it in four weeks. 

25:06
Lorne Lucree
Exactly, exactly. So that. And that’s. And so yeah thinking about like seeing one of those products in just a stock, you know, plastic, you know, whatever it’s. It would, it would impact it unfortunately. You know. And so it’s like how you think about all those things coming together and I think in emerging brands really have to think about all those pieces because often you’re trading off, you’re forcing yourself to make trade offs for resources and money to be honest and where do you spend. And so that’s why figuring out kind of those parts and pieces that are really going to drive your brand are going to be really critical. So understanding if you’re going to give up on packaging. 

25:40
Lorne Lucree
But maybe there are ways to think about how do you make that ownable or purposeful of why and then making that part of the whole brand story. 

25:48
Lara Schmoisman
There’s a whole other conversation that I think that is changing too, which is how sustainable you are. There are other ways to be sustainable and not only with the packaging. 

25:59
Lorne Lucree
Absolutely, absolutely. You can, you know, you think like packaging is the one lever that I think it’s been. If I think about what’s happening with greenwashing overall, I think that’s where everybody’s focused because that’s what everybody’s consumers most been most educated and beat over the head with of like PCR content, et cetera. But I think the overall sustainability, we’re seeing a lot of developments and a lot of access happening around being able to make better choices in terms of traceability, carbon footprint, etc. And that’s all actually being, I think most exciting to me is it’s being enabled by technology. So you know, not to nerd out with this, but like within the world of formulation, what’s helped us to get to advance more quickly in terms of like chemicals of a concern and clean and things like that has been technology. 

26:43
Lorne Lucree
So it’s been software platforms enabled quick scans of ingredient list has enabled brands to understand what’s in their products, what’s happening. And then that technology is also being leveraged now into lifecycle analysis, et cetera, which will help inform the impact beyond on the finished goods. So like carbon footprint recyclability, all those different parts and pieces. So technology is truly enabling brands to kind of move quicker in this world from a sustainability standpoint. I think about it more holistically, beyond just packaging for sure. 

27:13
Lara Schmoisman
And talking about technology and biotech also there is a new trending world in the beauty space that I’ve been seeing over and over, which is longevity. 

27:26
Lorne Lucree
Yeah, it’s crazy. Longevity is nuts. I mean it’s honestly, it’s like. And I’m a big believer. So I read it, I read out live, I’m like, I’m all in on longevity. I think it’s so brilliant because I think consumers want are taking control of their health, taking control of their destiny in many ways. And it’s turning skincare on its head because for so long we’ve been told it’s all been about sick skin care if you may. Like, you see a wrinkle, you need retinol, you see flaky skin, you need hydration. It’s all been this acute care versus preventative and thinking about what are the root causes. And I think it changes everything. It’s going to be really challenging for skincare to catch up because if you’re a skincare brand with all these pillars built on problem solution. 

28:13
Lorne Lucree
Now to add longevity, it’s kind of like. Well, actually everything we’ve been saying is. Could be wrong. 

28:18
Lara Schmoisman
I love the word longevity is. I mean we are long in our life and why not? I feel like were using the word anti aging, which I hate it. 

28:30
Lorne Lucree
Hates everybody and de. Aging. Anti aging, it’s all the same. But it’s all. 

28:34
Lara Schmoisman
And even. I’m even not a very pro age. It’s like, yeah, whoever you are, who knows? I mean, who cares how old you are? It’s how old you act like my kids tell me, mom, you’re an act your age. Should I. Yeah. Should I what? What should I act like? 

28:55
Lorne Lucree
I mean, yeah, and your whole self and everybody. It’s, it’s this embracing of the individual. Because I love about longevity and even microbiome science as well is that it’s like, it’s this new way of like embracing that everybody’s skin is different, everybody’s unique, everybody’s aging differently, everybody’s has different things happening with their lifestyle, etc. And it’s like meeting them where they’re at versus exactly. To put 0.2% retinol on your skin and you’re going to see a result. It’s saying like, listen, everybody’s inflammation in your skin is different, has different levels as. So let’s address that inflammation with our longevity. Let’s address your microbiome. Everybody’s microbiome is different. Let’s customize it to you based on your own microbiome, etc. And so it’s a different way of meeting folks where there are, where they are in a really positive, optimistic way, which I love. 

29:41
Lara Schmoisman
We start saying, okay, mature skin starts at 25, 30. It depends on who you are. There’s totally. It’s the same of menopause, the same of being a teenager. A teenager. 

29:53
Lorne Lucree
Absolutely. 

29:54
Lara Schmoisman
Everyone in the different time of their. 

29:56
Lorne Lucree
Age, like it’s a late bloomer, it’s 100%. And again we forget that. Like it’s not. There’s not a one size. That’s all. And everybody ages differently. Everybody, etc. So it’s like it’s easy, I think enough to, oh well, you need to start using, you know, vitamin c in your 20s, retinol in your 30s, et cetera. It’s easy to say that as a skincare industry, but it’s. I think what’s happening is it’s all being thrown out the window in terms of this highly customized personalized approach which could involve retinols and vitamin C, but could also involve other longevity ingredients and brands like One skin or Timeline or et cetera that are doing some really interesting things in this field around a different way to care for your skin and slow and. Or not slow, but age differently in a way that is. 

30:39
Lorne Lucree
It’s more optimistic and positive. 

30:41
Lara Schmoisman
Yeah, absolutely. Before we go, I want to talk about something that you just touched on that is about embracing the skin that you’re in. Because I feel like a lot of. And I do marketing, so I blame myself for this. And in just selling products, it’s not about the brand many times or buying what brand is buying what is good for your own skin. 

31:06
Lorne Lucree
Yes, yes, yes. And understanding. And that can be something highly personal. And I think that’s where your figuring out what will work for you and your skin type is something that’s. So I don’t think, I think people don’t really realize how important or what the impact it can be some of the times if you’re overusing ingredients or you’re not really embracing that. So I think it is a, it’s a moment of listening to the science, but also listening to your skin and feeling out. Feeling out what’s going to make the most sense for service. Both of those. Yeah, yeah. 

31:44
Lara Schmoisman
No, and sometimes, I mean when you create the line, you create to connect the products together. There is a reason why you create an eye cream and a night cream. They are to balance each other. I mean, I’m, believe me, I try everything. We have a lot of products to try. I love it. But I also can see the intention that the creators of brands do just for things to work together. 

32:13
Lorne Lucree
Yeah, yeah. You know, and I think that’s where if I had to actually make a recommendation for brands, if you were, if you’re an emerging brand listening to this podcast, like, you know what happens a lot with emerging brands because they don’t have in house formulation and getting more technical. But this is bringing in that technical piece of me is like, you know, they will. And this happens with eight, you know, brands, mature brands too, is that they’re working with a lot of multiple contract manufacturers. Right. So they’re working with a lot of different contract manufacturers to formulate their products. All chemists formulating maybe parts, you know, different products. So maybe one chemist is formulating moisturizer, one is formulated eye cream. But it’s all the same brand. Right? 

32:52
Lorne Lucree
So like while it’s under the same branding and probably uses maybe the same marketing ingredients, etc. Chemists innately will have a different approach to formulating. And this actually goes back to the Japanese skincare approach we talked about. Like, there is a huge value in using one partner to formulate your entire line. Because I think what you see there is that if you can find a chemist that gets you and you love the way they formulate. It’s almost like you’re finding your favorite artist or favorite music. Like, do you want to. 

33:21
Lara Schmoisman
I just been through that process and that conversations with your chemist. 

33:27
Lorne Lucree
Oh my God, they’re amazing. 

33:30
Lara Schmoisman
And like you can start. You get really greedy with ingredients, but also you need to be careful because they cost money. 

33:37
Lorne Lucree
They cost money. Yes. And so they get you once they understand like what you. Your vision and your, like the types of things can be little things like, oh, she like Laura likes more like a little bit more slip in her products and she wants to feel like a bit more sensorial or you want to feel something, you know, whatever it is like that. That’s the types of things. If you can work the more you can limit who you formulate with so that you can ensure every product has a similar chemistry. Construction point of view is. Is gold. 

34:04
Lara Schmoisman
I think it is because also your target audience, your consumer knows what they’re going to get from you 100%. And you need to think about something really important when you’re selling products. You don’t want to have returns in the beauty industry every time, not resell it. 

34:23
Lorne Lucree
That’s it. That’s it. And consumers will know too. I think once if you know, once you start to divert from that and I have, you know, and try. The consumers are smart and they’ll know and they’ll sense it. So it’s. It’s a, it’s a hack, but also like something I wish I wouldn’t have known had I not been in this industry for a while. But I feel like there is a huge value in having that. That single point of view from a formulation standpoint, for sure. 

34:46
Lara Schmoisman
That’s. That’s a good tip. Before we go, last thing I ask, I promise. What other trends are you seeing in the beauty industry that people are missing or that white thought of why that people say, hey, here’s an opportunity for the. 

35:05
Lorne Lucree
Yeah, again, I think the longevity is a big piece of it. This is whole like kind of this again, preventative health. You know, we’re seeing this big trend of like consumers having all this information access at their fingertips but wanting it now somebody to kind of distill and make it easy for them. So There’s a reason why everybody’s using chatgpt. There’s a reason why you’re seeing a resurgence of travel agents. There’s a reason why you’re seeing these like these adoptions of these technology and services that help make sense out of a chaotic world. So I think any products that can do that or point City that can do that. So I think we’ll see that manifest itself in skin and hair as much more streamlined ingredient stories but that have much more richer content and reasons to be. 

35:50
Lorne Lucree
I think overall were talking about it, this ability of personalization, what’s right for me and that doesn’t stop at skin or hair or body care that can have be ingestible. It can be multiple other things kind of impact, tools, implements, et cetera, kind of all working holistically to drive results as well. And then understanding again this like this how technology and this kind of outside, how do I say this, the ability to understand what’s happening inside your body, how that will inform your choices and inform and how brands react to that and ensuring that everybody feels like they have what’s accessible to them in a way that they need I feel like will be, you know, a bigger trend to think about as well. 

36:38
Lorne Lucree
So and then you know, this continued kind of graying of areas in terms of top like body, hair, skin, I think it’s all kind of continues to converge which I think is really interesting of like, you know, multi use products that are key benefits. 

36:53
Lara Schmoisman
I mean I was looking at some numbers and some forecasting and they said that the men’s industry is growing in the beauty industry amazingly. 

37:03
Lorne Lucree
Oh, interestingly it’s like. So I was just having this conversation this morning. So I, you know, having worked at, you know I did innovation at Clinique Skin Supplies for Men which is you know, the number, you know that heels and Jack Black were forever the three kind of men’s brands that’s sold. It’s interesting. The men’s market I think is like TikTok is having definitely an influence on the men’s market, men’s beauty and personal care market of I think legitimizing and making it some of those, some of these beauty options that maybe weren’t always for, you know, always positioned or targeted for men, making them more accessible. So you’re seeing, you know that the French TikTok influencer putting his makeup on in the subway and making that more okay and Charlotte Tilbury giving her makeup to use and etc. 

37:51
Lorne Lucree
And like and perfume maxing or whatever and all these different things. I think it’s, I think it just comes down to the brands of how they’re communicating to it and what’s what that consumer is open to and I think it’ll surprise us in terms of what’s going to resonate with him versus what we’ve seen in the past of just really being about, really about masculine looking, packaging and fragrance. You know, what else is there for him to engage him. 

38:13
Lara Schmoisman
Yeah, amazing. Well, thank you so much for being with us. 

38:16
Lorne Lucree
Yeah, thank you. 

38:17
Lara Schmoisman
Yeah, truly fun. 

38:20
Lorne Lucree
That’s super fun. Thank you so much for having me. 

38:22
Lara Schmoisman
Okay, to you guys. I will see you next week with more coffee. Number five. Find everything you need at larashmoisman.com or in the episode notes right below. Don’t forget to subscribe. Was so good to have you here today. See you next time. Catch you on the flip side. Ciao, ciao.