Lara Schmoisman

00:05

This is Coffee Number Five. I’m your host, Lara Schmoisman. Hi, everyone. Welcome back to coffee number five. And today I have a serious treat for you. I have to tell you know, I go to all these events, we always talk about these events, and there was this woman that I saw around and she always caught my attention and I heard her talk and I was so impressed with her talks, but also because everything she said was making sense and it really did. And you guys know I have a skincare line and how important for me is marketing and everything that needs to have a purpose, they need to have an intention while we do things.

Lara Schmoisman

00:49

And lately I was at an event in Napa and finally I was able to connect with her and were able to chat a little bit and I was even more impressed. So she had to be part of this podcast. So welcome, doctor Jenelle Kim. Thank you so much for being here.

Jenelle Kim

01:06

What a beautiful introduction, Lara. I’m so happy and honored to be here. And I agree. I’m so grateful that we connected. There’s never enough time. That’s the truth. But we have a lifetime.

Lara Schmoisman

01:16

Yeah, this time we had some long time.

Jenelle Kim

01:19

Yes, that’s right. We don’t always have that. Yes. And then it’s natural and all the things.

Lara Schmoisman

01:24

Yes, absolutely. But what I love about hearing you talk is not also how calm you are and how you explain things, but also how you connect our ancestors with today’s medicine, but also you bring new, innovative techniques. So why can’t you tell us a little backstory how, of course, are here today? Because your background is incredible. You’re a doctor of acupuncture, traditional oriental medicine, also western medicine. But you are a formulator and at the same time you are, you teach meditation. Oh, my God, please tell us everything.

Jenelle Kim

02:08

Thank you, Lara. I know. And actually we just had a beautiful moment of how it all connects. So before I even introduce, before I even begin sharing what it is that I believe I am here for, yes, it all connects all the things you just mentioned. So, yes, I’m Doctor Jenelle Kim. I’m a 9th generation doctor of acupuncture and chinese medicine, but I say traditional oriental medicine because my lineage in particular, my family line is korean. And so we specialize in herbal medicine. And that kind of leads me into, long story short, you know, basically what I’ve committed myself to for the last 20 plus years, which is formulation, creating products, we began 20 years ago really being the strongest proponents of natural products. Back then, that was not even a thing. Clean beauty was not a thing. And so we can just imagine.

Jenelle Kim

02:59

But how quickly it has come forward. Right. And so, yes, so that is my background, as you just mentioned, something that I don’t always share when I’m just speaking of the beauty in and of itself, but really important and what I’ve committed to doing my very best to teach the world, anyone who is not aware or who just needs to be reminded, particularly from my lineage, is that I’m also a practitioner of traditional martial arts qigong. So it’s moving meditation that I teach, and I call them the three pillars, the three m. So, medicine in the formulation, the movement, which is moving meditation, rooted in Qigong as it has been passed on my lineage, and meditation. But when I say meditation, I mean living meditation and living meditation, actually, it’s the book that’s right above me.

Jenelle Kim

03:44

It’s a book that I published with Watkins and Penguin Random House, and that is the living meditation is the philosophy, it’s the mindset. And so, as you and I were able to connect briefly, we always wish we had more time, but would I go out into the world teaching very directly now? So I’m so grateful. 20 years ago is a little over, a little too new, if I may. But I knew we’d come to this point. And so, of course, we can break into speaking more about the beauty and the formulation, but that’s a little more straightforward.

Lara Schmoisman

04:10

Right.

Jenelle Kim

04:11

And I like to say this because clearly, I’ve devoted my life and will continue to making the cleanest, most effective formulations that, as you said, include herbal ingredients, are plant medicine. As it has been handed down, that understanding of formulation and ingredients in my lineage, I am also very innovative in my lab, my team, we have labs around the world rooted and headquartered here in San Diego, California. Quality of life, that’s where I raise my family. But that is such a huge part of my life. Something I really must share, and I really wish for people to understand, is that movement, proper movement, equals breath work as well. And living meditation, our mindset are equally important to attaining optimal beauty, longevity and wellness.

Lara Schmoisman

05:02

I don’t know how close this is to Tai chi.

Jenelle Kim

05:05

Yes, very similar. It’s. Qigong is the first, if I may say, qigong. I like to sometimes share that qigong is truly, I mean, we’re talking thousands upon thousands of years ago. Qi is your vital energy. It is breath. So qigong is the study of or how to cultivate that, our qi, our vital energy and qigong. I go out to say, and I feel very strong about this is the first exercise, breath, work, any kind of movement that ever existed. So everything is from the center.

Lara Schmoisman

05:33

Let me explain a little bit. What is this to our audience? I had the experience of doing Tai chi many years ago. Yes, it’s beautiful. It’s concentrating and meditating, but at the same time, your body is expressing.

Jenelle Kim

05:48

Yes, that’s exactly right. And I love that, Lara. So I’m going to quickly answer, though. So Tai chi is qigong. It’s more of a flow. So I first want to say that. So they’re kind of one and the same. Tai chi is qigong, right? So it’s just more of a flow. So, qigong, as I said, is our movements that have been handed down for thousands of years, and there’s different lineages with certain specific techniques, but they have been in existence for that long because they work. And it is very much at certain stances. It’s certain movements. Qigong, in particular, are very simple, and that’s the part that I love to teach. It is something that I truly could not live without.

Jenelle Kim

06:24

I would go so far as to say again, even though most of my life is committed to creating the formulas, the supplements, I strongly speak about how important food is. Food is the best medicine. Right. However, in my life, and when I share this with people who do understand these movements, this form of movement, as I call it, moving meditation, because I think that really explains what it is in a matter of just a few minutes, certain movements or stances even, because you don’t need a lot of room, you can do it sitting down, you can do it in your car. There’s no excuse. It only takes a couple of minutes. And it is, in my life, one of the most effective things, because in just a few minutes, when doing some of these specific techniques combined with breathing. Right.

Jenelle Kim

07:08

And so that’s very important, helps to harmonize. So, our. So, long story short, the same way proper food and formulations work in our body when it comes to eastern medicine. And I can’t remember, Lara, if you were able to join one of my courses at the events, but I usually start out by having everyone understand what they’re doing is that we have a series, a system of meridians that run throughout our entire body. Now, this could literally take years to describe, but I’m going to do it in about a minute here. Okay, so we have meridians that run throughout our entire body. And for those who can’t picture this, picture it like a circulatory system, right? So we have qi, vital energy, and blood that moves throughout our whole body, and that’s what makes everything function. Right.

Jenelle Kim

07:48

When something is off balance there, which comes from every and all factors of life, from mental, physical, spiritual, we eat something wrong, something shocks us or stresses us out, we have trauma. All of these things knock our system off balance. That’s part of life. But it’s how we’re able to bring ourselves back to balance in the end. Whether it’s through formulations I keep repeating, but it’s so important whether it’s through the food we eat, definitely through our movement. Right. And our breath work. So that is one way I describe what qigong is. It’s certain specific techniques that have been passed down that you can do in a matter of minutes, connecting your breath. It completely calms, relaxes your mind and body when you put your mind into it, just for a few minutes, and it helps to rebalance very quickly.

Jenelle Kim

08:33

And one of the quickest things we can do in our life when we are in a moment of imbalance, or we can be. It doesn’t always have to be so daunting. We can have a really shocking and surprising and wonderful moment in life, but we always want to be rooted in whatever comes our way. We can do it then, too, but by doing these things, we kind of, not kind of, we learn to control our own selves, which ultimately is the only thing we can control in this life. And so it makes us incredibly powerful and able to handle whatever comes our way.

Lara Schmoisman

09:02

It’s very fascinating to me because compared to Yola, that also needs to balance us. Yes, yoga is very rigid to maintain positions. So what’s the difference here?

Jenelle Kim

09:15

So I, naturally, Lara will find, especially in the ancient medicines, philosophies, you name it, movements. I tend to find the similarities always, when they are rooted, you always need to find a teacher who knows what they’re talking about, where the line comes from, all the things. But I would actually start by saying, Lara, they’re very similar. They’re similar in the rooting the mind, calming the mind and body, because when we’re calm, right, that’s what western medicine, eastern, doesn’t matter who it is, we all agree that it’s important to be calm, because then everything functions properly, right? So yoga is very similar. But yes, I would go so far as to make a statement, and I’m careful to do that yoga has strong postures as well. But it’s slightly different. They are the same, but slightly different.

Jenelle Kim

10:02

I, of course, will choose qigong, as I do feel it in my personal life. Of course, this is what I have grown up with what I teach. But they are, they very quickly harmonize the meridian systems, and anyone and everyone can do that.

Lara Schmoisman

10:15

This is great to know. There are a lot of people, myself included. I struggle. Yoga.

Jenelle Kim

10:20

Yeah, a lot of people do not.

Lara Schmoisman

10:22

Only the pulses are very challenging.

Jenelle Kim

10:24

Right.

Lara Schmoisman

10:24

Also, I feel very rigid. I’m always on the go, so it’s really hard to calm my mind.

Jenelle Kim

10:33

Of course, that’s the number one challenge through movement.

Lara Schmoisman

10:37

It’s easier to stop sometimes.

Jenelle Kim

10:40

Yes, yes.

Lara Schmoisman

10:41

So it’s great to know that other people, that they are not enjoying yoga.

Jenelle Kim

10:47

Yes, I hear this often.

Lara Schmoisman

10:48

They have other options.

Jenelle Kim

10:50

Absolutely. Or if you love yoga, it all very much enhances. Right. So by doing certain qigong breath work prior to yoga, to running, to cross training, you name it. Qigong is, like I said, we’re circling back. It’s the foundation of all of it. And so when you’re able to kind of quickly reset, rebalance, root your mind and your body through these movements, anything you do, physical exercise, mental meetings, raising our children, running a business, it all applies and is really medicine for the mind.

Lara Schmoisman

11:23

Before the podcast today, I was thinking, like, what did we separate these two worlds and why? Because now I feel like there is a tendency that we’re going back together. I mean, I see it with formulations, I see it in the beauty industry a lot, that we’re going more with natural ingredients. But also something that I love is acupuncture. That is something that maybe doesn’t work for anyone, but I don’t know if it’s done well either.

Jenelle Kim

11:49

And that’s with any. That’s with any practice, if you will, medical practice, any kind of practice. You know, I would like to believe, and I do believe, that most people start with a good intention. Some may not, but that doesn’t mean everybody knows what they’re doing.

Lara Schmoisman

12:04

But something I recently learned about acupuncture, that it was not only where you put the needles, also, it supports the conversation that you have with your patient, so you understand what you’re doing.

Jenelle Kim

12:18

Absolutely. Absolutely. That intention, not just, and it’s a very. I feel that people who are new to this, it’s not something I talk about often, actually, Lara, but it can sound very esoteric or out there. But really, one thing I really appreciate about eastern medicine and philosophy is it can be very black and white. It’s actually very practical and effective. And yes, when you know what’s happening, your mind is more aware, your body is more aware, your nervous system is more aware, and you can start to feel what’s happening in your body. And that is incredibly important. In fact, I would go so as far as to say that a lot of people, particularly in western culture, because we are kind of babies compared to some of these old cultures, and that’s just the way it is.

Jenelle Kim

12:57

There’s a lot of pros to that as well. We’re not as aware. Right. Of our own selves. And that is, and that could be a whole long conversation. But if you understand what I’m saying, we have to know when we’re starting to feel off. We have to know. We can’t wait so long until we’re depressed, until we have serious digestive problems. And sometimes it’s hard to catch it. Absolutely. But sometimes if we’re aware enough of our own selves, and of course we go out to our experts, our doctors, our practitioners, our therapists, it’s all there for us. But number one, we have to be aware of ourselves. And then we can feel when something starts to go off balance and we can quickly reset and rebalance.

Lara Schmoisman

13:34

But what I see about the acupuncture is that in opposition to the western medicine, you need to be talking to your practitioner or your patient need to be asking a lot more questions to know how to treat. I give you a medicine, a prescription is going to go away.

Jenelle Kim

13:54

And in eastern medicine it’s necessary. There’s no way we could treat you, if we’re following correctly, eastern medicine without asking those questions. In fact, after this many years of it being in my life, because this has been my life since I was, came into this earth and my greatest teacher would actually even teach me to since I was young, they would have me come and they would say, even someone on television, you know, come over here for a second, look at their face, like, look at their skin. It’s different. It’s not just about how we look as far as vanity, but the truth of the matter is, and people know this about me within just a couple seconds. Naturally, when I see you, I already have a very close, a very good understanding of what is happening with you.

Jenelle Kim

14:34

So it’s kind of a secret, you know, weapon, I suppose, or a secret.

Lara Schmoisman

14:38

Power as a better expertise that you know. Yes, it’s the same that when I see a website, I can see a lot of problems.

Jenelle Kim

14:46

That’s exactly right, Lara. That’s exactly right. But it does, it comes with a lot of that questioning. There’s any time someone will come to me or any kind of eastern medical practitioner doctor, there will be questions asked. And those questions help us to understand the root. So, remember, eastern medicine will almost always treat the root of the condition of the problem, not just the symptoms. Right. And so that’s kind of key. Western medicine often will focus on treating the symptoms. And some may be surprised to hear me say this, but I feel very strongly, remember, I am of the Tao, the yin and the yang. It’s always the dichotomy and the balance. But I feel there’s a very strong place for western medicine. There’s also a very strong place for our ancient medicines, our eastern medicine, for example, and we have to know when.

Lara Schmoisman

15:32

And I believe that they can be combined.

Jenelle Kim

15:34

Of course they can. Of course they can.

Lara Schmoisman

15:37

And I see that lately there’s a lot more willingness and even insurance are starting to cover, because, I mean, as wonderful that western medicine is, they don’t have the answer for everything. And we have a very short time in comparison with the learnings that we have from our ancestors.

Jenelle Kim

15:57

Absolutely. Absolutely, Lara. So I am not surprised at all. 20 years ago, when I started even the beauty industry, as we said, creating these formulas, all based on the herbal and, you know, beautiful formulations. And back then, we didn’t have the luxury of having ingredients that made it more simple to create a luxurious formula carried in four seasons or Neiman Marcus or, you know, Credo. Nowadays, it was not so simple, right? But I knew. I knew back then, because people ask, because it was not. When I look back, it was very challenging, you know? Oh, Jenelle, I wasn’t even a doctor at that time. People aren’t going to understand natural. They won’t understand herbal, anything, eastern or korean. They thought I was crazy, you know? And most people are graceful in saying it to me.

Lara Schmoisman

16:37

Look at K views.

Jenelle Kim

16:39

Yes, there you go. I knew, because we’re all human, right? And so at the end of the day, I knew that if I was able to communicate properly what has been passed down for this long, because it works, otherwise, why would something exist for so long? It’s like you said when we started, I love when things make sense. I like that, too, Lara. I can be very practical in life. Yeah.

Lara Schmoisman

17:00

I mean, I feel like sometimes we’re making things overcomplicated when I think that’s.

Jenelle Kim

17:05

The number one problem.

Lara Schmoisman

17:06

When I see a product, even a product or something that I gonna eat, I always look at the ingredients. When I see there are too many, I checked it somehow.

Jenelle Kim

17:15

Yes, yes. And that’s a way we can also be aware and educate. You don’t have to as a consumer, let’s say, or as a patient, know every single ingredient. There are apps now that can help us understand that. And there’s some imbalances in all of that as well, to be honest, if you really look deeply. But in general, if we educate ourselves with some kind of big key, no ingredients or plant medicines, herbs that are good for us, that’s the way we can start to become that much more aware and open. And then we teach our children, you know, my boys know everything in balance. So sometimes if they want a bag of Doritos, guess what, Lara? They’re going to eat the bag of Doritos.

Jenelle Kim

17:50

Because in my understanding and the lifestyle I lead, if they’re not able to balance that, we also have a problem. Right. But let me tell you, yes, they turn that bag around and they start looking at those ingredient lists. And people think sometimes it’s funny, but they appreciate. I appreciate it. They know MSG is not good for you. Absolutely.

Lara Schmoisman

18:10

For example, I’m all my life I deal with white issues, but I didn’t want to transfer that to my kids. And I want to learn that sweets was part of their life.

Jenelle Kim

18:21

Yes, that’s right.

Lara Schmoisman

18:23

So since very young, since they were going and I don’t know, they were two, three years old, in the little lunchbox, I always will put a chocolate case or something tiny, but it’s sweet. So know that the sweet is part of the meal. They can eat before or after the meal. I didn’t hear the order. Yes, today there are adopts and they both have a very balanced meal.

Jenelle Kim

18:46

I love that line.

Lara Schmoisman

18:47

They don’t. I think it’s part of our society that they make it that if you see even chinese cultures and their breakfast, what they have, this is a meal.

Jenelle Kim

18:59

Oh, my gosh. You come into my life, my friends who are not as familiar with the east asian culture, the korean culture. I definitely eat like a Korean. Oh, yes. I have my large meal for lunch. I have my large meal for dinner at this point in my life. Then we now call it intermittent fasting. But naturally, that feels good for me. But let me tell you, if I wake up in the morning, Lara, and I’m really hungry, that means my body’s hungry and I will eat something. That’s the thing. It’s like we have to know. But in general, yes, everyone knows this come around 1230. And that’s actually a key, a practical tip, if you will.

Jenelle Kim

19:34

Hopefully I can share with everyone, if they don’t already know that actually, in eastern medicine, the consistent eating is one of the most important things for our longevity, health and beauty. To not skip meals, no matter how busy I ever am. And it’s not like it’s never happened in my life, but you better believe I will be eating something and I will sit down and I will enjoy that meal, even if it’s for 1015 minutes, even if I’m doing other things, because life happens. But that is a part of my life. My boys know this, my family, my friends, everybody knows.

Lara Schmoisman

20:03

I always tell this story. I come from a family of longevous, even though I’m latin. Then they immigrate to Argentina. But my great grandfather, he was almost 102, and he was the only one allowed to get by himself out of the senior house. And every day he will go to the bar and have his drink.

Jenelle Kim

20:27

Yes.

Lara Schmoisman

20:28

And it was part of your culture.

Jenelle Kim

20:30

Yes, yes.

Lara Schmoisman

20:32

And he was bright at hundred Chu and Mogubo and everything. But it’s. I believe that routine and him enjoying his life.

Jenelle Kim

20:42

Yes. That’s. I even get goosebumps. That is so key.

Lara Schmoisman

20:46

Yeah. I think we deprive ourself many times.

Jenelle Kim

20:50

Yes. And that creates an imbalance in and of itself. And then that creates, if you’re looking, if you’re understanding Dao, we didn’t get too far into it, but, you know, it really is the dichotomy, always yin and yang. And so, like, whenever there’s an extreme, guess what happens? It starts to try to balance itself out, and it can actually turn into the other extreme if you don’t watch properly.

Lara Schmoisman

21:08

Yeah.

Jenelle Kim

21:09

And so that’s part of that same principle. Everything we do in life. That’s how I formulate, literally, that’s how I formulate products, that’s how I parent. That is how I am in my relationship with my husband of almost 20 years. I mean, it’s how I run my business.

Lara Schmoisman

21:24

I know.

Jenelle Kim

21:25

See, Laura, it’s that same principle. It’s not even like we have to memorize so many things. There’s certainly, at the end of the.

Lara Schmoisman

21:31

Day, it’s not so complex.

Jenelle Kim

21:33

No, that’s the whole.

Lara Schmoisman

21:34

You choose to make it complicated or not the same. And now I’m bringing it to the formulation. When you formulate, you have a very good intention, and I think that’s my favorite word ever, intention.

Jenelle Kim

21:47

I agree.

Lara Schmoisman

21:47

You do marketing with intention. You formulate with intention.

Jenelle Kim

21:50

Yes.

Lara Schmoisman

21:51

Tension. Your why is not clear.

Jenelle Kim

21:54

Yes.

Lara Schmoisman

21:55

Your formula is going to be all over the place. Your marketing is going to go all over the place.

Jenelle Kim

22:00

Absolutely. I love that. That’s beautifully said.

Lara Schmoisman

22:03

And I think at the time of formulating, a lot of people are confused. Believe me, I’m a marketer, so I want ingredients that I can market. But at the end of the day, if I don’t have a product that works, I can get people to buy it again.

Jenelle Kim

22:20

Absolutely. And then things have changed a bit. Back however many years ago, you could kind of get away with that, have a beautiful package and, you know, you can get far. Believe me, I’ve seen some brands who have done that, but now people are more educated, more aware there are more options. And you do. You have to know what you’re doing. And those who are on the other side looking to create a brand or formula products, it is vital to find someone who knows what they’re doing. Because time and time again, do we have clients coming to us who, you know, it’s heartbreaking because when you start a brand on your own, Lara, I’m sure you have seen this or have your own experience, but, you know, you put so much heart, mind, money, you name it into this and, yes, so.

Lara Schmoisman

23:03

You wanted to so much and sometimes all over the place without.

Jenelle Kim

23:08

Yes.

Lara Schmoisman

23:10

And this is something really important that when I always talk to my clients is why. Why you created the founder story. The story of your brand is so important at the moment that I’m gonna go through branding or you’re gonna go through formulation. We need to understand the heart and.

Jenelle Kim

23:28

The soul of this because that’s what people feel that’s what going way back. People, we’re all human. We all have this chi, this energy that exists east, west, you know, in all forms, on all aspects of life or arenas. This conversation exists, you know, and all.

Lara Schmoisman

23:46

Of that resonates within when you are formulating.

Jenelle Kim

23:51

Yes.

Lara Schmoisman

23:52

How do you incorporate first, like, first the botanical elements or the herbal elements?

Jenelle Kim

23:59

Okay.

Lara Schmoisman

24:00

How you start without and trying to limit the newer products that we brought to society in order to make it effective, but at the same time marketable and.

Jenelle Kim

24:13

Yes, and unique. Yes. I have to say that it’s such a beautiful thing because now that I’ve been doing this for 20 plus years, you know, it’s so interesting because of all of the numerous clients and we have the luxury, I like to acknowledge this, we have the luxury of choosing. We wish to work with people, we work with care. They have a good plan. They create beautiful formulations and they trust us.

Lara Schmoisman

24:39

And I’m not afraid to tell you, like, I’m not the right. Fit it for you. I’m.

Jenelle Kim

24:43

Yes, no, it’s important.

Lara Schmoisman

24:44

Several people.

Jenelle Kim

24:45

It’s very important. But, yeah, go ahead. Tari?

Lara Schmoisman

24:48

No, it’s really important to have that connection with who you work with. Not only that, you feel like they are going to steer in the right direction and they’re going to give you the right path.

Jenelle Kim

25:00

Yes, I could not agree more. It is vital, actually. But for each one of the people who have ever come into our lab and wanted to formulate, it comes in many different ways. And every single one is so unique, Lara, it’s really a beautiful thing, even for me, to sit down and refresh on that. Every single one is so unique. There’s never one formula that, you know, of course, there’s private label and this and that. That’s a whole different thing where you have a couple. In our lab, we just have a couple kind of stock formulas for those who cannot buy, you know, a thousand of one product and customize. And so that’s kind of an important thing. But for all of our custom brands with custom formulations, every story has been different.

Jenelle Kim

25:37

To answer your questions, sometimes they come with a really important ingredient, sometimes they come with a beautiful story, and they their experience of something. And so we think through, okay, what is it? Is it part of your culture? Where are you from? Are there things in your life that you. And lo and behold, they’ll say something and you’re like, that’s beautiful. That’s a beautiful piece to explaining why you’re creating this formula. Sometimes it’ll be a concept. Sometimes people come to us with formulations already made, huge companies, and they want it to be a little bit more unique, a little bit more clean, a bit more effective. And so, yes, naturally, I will always start with the herbs, the herbal ingredients, the plant medicine, because that’s who I am.

Jenelle Kim

26:18

And there’s so many, you know, but also, again, we’re limited in time, but it’s really important to know that one of the most important parts of being an herbologist equals the ancient formulators, right? Is, of course, it’s the individual ingredient. So important. I studied how many years studying all these ingredients, these herbs and plants, but it’s actually how they synergistically come together. It’s like a perfect recipe. And that’s the important part. That’s the unique part that I know, my lab, we do. Of course, I don’t know any other way, but important for people to know.

Lara Schmoisman

26:50

You know, I have a question about that, because I seen that in the formulation, there are people that have put so many ingredients.

Jenelle Kim

26:57

Yes.

Lara Schmoisman

26:58

Can you make a formulation effective with a targeted intention? Again, yes, I see that right now with the formulas. I said rejuvenating, brightening these and that. How much can you put in one formula?

Jenelle Kim

27:15

Yes.

Lara Schmoisman

27:16

Start putting a little bit of each ingredient.

Jenelle Kim

27:18

Yes, yes, no. And, and you know, the truth is there’s not one set statement that when you do see lists and lists of ingredients, it’s probably not necessary. In general. There have been times where people have come to us and given us this whole list and we’ll tell them half of this is not necessary. If you want to put it there, fine. Of course it’s, if it’s something harmful or those ingredients don’t react properly together, I will speak up. But no, it’s not really necessary. Now you can, especially with herbal medicine, some of the callouts that you just said, you certainly can create a beautiful formula that brightening and firming and lifting at the same time, for sure. You know what I mean? But it’s also nice to kind of. Yes. Have more concentrated versions. There’s a lot that goes into it.

Jenelle Kim

28:05

But in general, I agree with you, Lara, having lists and lists of ingredients does not always mean that it’s better. Maybe that’s the best way to say.

Lara Schmoisman

28:12

We also have a lot of trending products out there. We don’t know necessarily, there is not a lot of data out there.

Jenelle Kim

28:21

Right.

Lara Schmoisman

28:21

Let’s, for example, CBD. Yes, that. I think it was the last, I don’t know, trend fab. I don’t know how you want to. I know that it’s a very difficult material to work with also.

Jenelle Kim

28:31

Yes, yes. In fact, I did not think we’d get into this. But long story short, I was one of the very first to work with like the founders of the CBD industry here in the United States and really around the world. I mean truly setting the stage for what CBD is.

Lara Schmoisman

28:46

I’m not surprised that they chose this.

Jenelle Kim

28:48

I haven’t talked about it in a while, but I must say that one of the most important things to me, at first I did not agree to work with them because I didn’t know what their intention was. But then I started to see that actually they really were focusing on truly helping children in particular and focusing really on the amazing benefits. So I’m going to answer this way. So I decided to move forward and work with them because I had a feeling it was going to be very big.

Jenelle Kim

29:11

And I had a feeling not only was it going to be big for this particular industry, but it was going to open doors for people to be that much more even aware of, not just open to, aware of plant medicine and so the way I started and agreed to kind of open the doors to this country and to other parts of the world, Asia, Europe, Latin America, you name it, of CBD is to remind everyone, and I think you’re going to like this, Lara, that CBD equals part of hem. Cannabis is one of the 50 fundamental herbs of chinese medicine. So while we think this is so new, respect, it’s literally, it was first noted, obviously, through word of mouth and legend, because 10,000 years ago, they did not have books and they were taking classes.

Jenelle Kim

29:59

But the yellow emperor, who was the father of herbal medicine in China, was 10,000 years ago, and he, through, again, we can call it legend, but through word of mouth, for centuries, hippies talked about hemp.

Lara Schmoisman

30:12

Yes. Well, then we have western culture that the hippies made it really popular in a different way.

Jenelle Kim

30:19

Fine, whatever, you know, but that’s. That’s a one way of understanding and looking at that, you know, but, yes, kind of why we even got on this conversation. And I will acknowledge, even though I was a huge proponent of the good and very powerful properties of this ingredient of CBD, you know, the proper way is to synergistically combine it with other things. You know, it is. It is one of those magical ingredients. Ginseng is the same way also. It can do so many things, but it can’t do everything that’s not super balanced.

Lara Schmoisman

30:50

Exactly. One ingredient. You cannot treat absolutely everything.

Jenelle Kim

30:55

No.

Lara Schmoisman

30:57

Is there enough data today that we can say. I don’t know if we can say that in a lot of the ingredients, we have data for the beauty industry, necessarily.

Jenelle Kim

31:08

Right. Yes, that’s true. If I’m understanding what you’re saying properly, Lara, we don’t have tons of data to support everything, especially now that we are looking back to our ancient medicines and they did not pay attention to this. Like I said, I highly doubt the herbologists, even right now in the mountains of Korea or China, are talking about, you know, the clinical studies that were done. It doesn’t work like that.

Lara Schmoisman

31:29

Yeah, they’re not going to be worried about, oh, it looks our skin making it a little more pump. They have bigger problems.

Jenelle Kim

31:37

Yes, this is the truth. But they. But simultaneously, they have so much wisdom and knowledge of, and partially how my father learned. Now here I’m opening up. I know where our conversation’s ending soon, but my father, my own father, right, studied in the mountains of East Asia from the age of seven to 14. It’s like a movie. It blows people’s minds, even my own. I don’t have that experience, you know? But let me say, those individuals, even who my father was, or centuries ago, when that was truly their life, and there are still people, 100% in all parts of the world that live in the mountains, have that culture that they might not be looking to make their skin the most plump. You’re right, Lara, but they know what to incorporate into their food.

Jenelle Kim

32:17

They know what to take medicinally, let’s say they know what to put on their skin. And naturally, they are probably more vital and more beautiful and more calm and in so many ways, you know, because it’s just a natural part of their life, you know? But. But we have a lot of benefit also having. Having everything at our fingertips.

Lara Schmoisman

32:36

Absolutely. So if someone comes to you and it tells you, I want to make my product unique.

Jenelle Kim

32:44

Yes.

Lara Schmoisman

32:44

What would you be? Your answer? How can.

Jenelle Kim

32:46

Well, that’s where I would. I would first, and I started to answer that. But sometimes I will ask, well, what is important to you? What is your intention behind this? Who are you trying to help? You know, these are the types of things that can lead us down this. This path and forget, even just lead, so we can start at the path. Because I agree, my mind does not start to create and pull from my medicine and formulation knowledge, if you will, until I’m even clear on that. And so there’s many different ways, Lara, that occurs a lot of times. It is that, like I said, kind of repeating, but important. Sometimes they’ll come with an important ingredient that they already have in mind because they had an experience or something amazed them. Something brought it to their attention. Sometimes it is.

Jenelle Kim

33:26

I really wish to, you know, achieve creating the most clean, beautiful skincare for my teenage daughter. Do you see what I’m saying? And then we kind of walk through, okay, what’s important to you? What are you looking for? And that’s what I’m saying. The most beautiful thing is that I’ve never had an experience where we’re like, shoot, I don’t know what to do. Never. Always. Something comes, and it creates a beautiful.

Lara Schmoisman

33:47

I’m very open to it.

Jenelle Kim

33:49

Yes, yes.

Lara Schmoisman

33:50

I think that nothing comes when you are too close minded. It.

Jenelle Kim

33:53

No, no. And you can’t fit it into the box either. Can’t be contrived. You do have to have the best intention. You have to be open to the experts, the team that we have around. We all have to work together here in that way. But, yes, it comes in many ways.

Lara Schmoisman

34:07

Whatever I always will say. I mean, it’s so important, the formulation, but in the same side. You need to impart a work with your marketing. I’m sure that you there is really what you’re competing. Who is your competition? What’s your price point?

Jenelle Kim

34:23

Point, yes. And that’s very important. We didn’t get into the black and white. Maybe that can be for another time. You also have to incorporate those. That’s where Craig and I, you know, he is my partner. We have been for 20 years, also my husband. But we. We know that. That’s one of the reasons. I know that’s why our relationship even works. But we work very well in that together. And that he stays in his lane, I stay in mine. But he will. When we’re starting to speak to a customer that not everyone knows is. Yes, you want to understand your price point, too, that’s important. Otherwise, you waste a lot of time, truth and money. Well, hopefully we’d catch you before you ever wasted the money, but given our, you know, long standing experience with this. But you’re right.

Jenelle Kim

35:04

Not a lot of people do know this, and certainly people waste money. So I take that back, and I.

Lara Schmoisman

35:09

Feel like I’ve been. I seen so many stories out there of people not only formula, not knowing what’s in their formula, not knowing what. What is going to cost them.

Jenelle Kim

35:22

Yes, yes. Knowing all these things. You’re right, Lara. There are so many people who have this experience, and I’m shocked every time. At least I know, and I know this industry is knowing that there are those of us who do care. We have a lot of experience, you know? So people. And people know that.

Lara Schmoisman

35:40

Yeah. And whenever you start, I always say, just interview a lot of people. Yes, sure. That you are not only connecting mentally, you also find that energy. Oh, nobody just is going to be a partner in crime with you. They want you to grow. They’re going to be applauding you from the side and sharing for you.

Jenelle Kim

36:08

Yes.

Lara Schmoisman

36:09

That’s so important that you find in marketing, in. In formulation, in packaging, because at the end of the day, everything needs to work together.

Jenelle Kim

36:19

Yes, absolutely. And that’s.

Lara Schmoisman

36:21

I cannot even tell you how many times I was asked to be in meetings formulation. So I can hear then how can I market it?

Jenelle Kim

36:30

Sure. I think so. I think that’s a great point. I completely agree. To hear through that whole story where it resonates from the ingredient to the formula to, you know, the process. It doesn’t even matter because every moment is so important. So that’s. That’s a good marketer, Lara.

Lara Schmoisman

36:47

I want to believe so. Well, Doctor Jenelle, thank you so much for having coffee with me. We’re going to have to do another one because I know we left a lot of part of the conversation, but maybe soon.

Jenelle Kim

37:01

Yes, I would love that. I would love that. Thank you so much for having me.

Lara Schmoisman

37:04

And to you guys, we will see you next week with more Coffee Number Five. Find everything you need at Laraschmoisman.com. Or in the episode notes right below. Don’t forget to subscribe. Was so good to have you here today. See you next time. Catch you on the flip side. Ciao. Ciao.