Lara Schmoisman  0:05  

This is Coffee N5. I’m your host, Lara Schmoisman. Welcome back to Coffee N5. Today I was thinking, I actually had a problem. One of my clients has a wonderful brand, an absolutely gorgeous brand. I’m so proud of the work we did. But my client decided that she wants to be the face of the brand. So I got an issue there. I was like, oh, it’s hard. First of all, I wasn’t hired to run the person I was hired to brand to brand, a brand, a product, which is really, really different. And also, it’s like, if you do, you are branding a person, you are making a different strategy, then branding a product is completely different things and branding both oh my god is a lot of work. So today, I hope I gotta say this, right? I invited Vinnie Potestivo.

Vinnie Potestivo  1:12  

Potestivo, yeah, that’s right.

Lara Schmoisman  1:13  

I’m excited to have you here. I mean, er, I’m gonna ask you to tell us a bit about yourself, because it’s so much you are working with so many of my favorite shows and people. So please tell us a little more about yourself. 

Vinnie Potestivo  1:32  

Thank you so much. That’s so cool to hear that, you know, some of my projects, which I always love, sort of just in terms of moving forward, it’s so cool to see how many of my projects have actually touched people worldwide. I’m born and raised in Staten Island. I got my start in television here in New York. I’m still here in New York and Brooklyn. And in the mid to late 90s, I started working in television, and I worked at Fox News Network, which actually helped me get a job at MTV News, which actually got my foot in the door. And in the late 90s, a man named rajasah and myself started the talent development department at MTV, which was the idea that yes, there was show development. And but no one was really organizing the conversation around the strengths of the talent that we’re passing in and out of, out of MTV. So that was my first job. So I’m so lucky to have spent the first 10 years of my career launching talent brands like Beyonce and Mandy Moore, Carmen Electra, Jessica Simpson, Ashton Kutcher, Nazim, please, I can list a bunch of names. The Osborne’s

Lara Schmoisman  2:47  

amazing. And also I was realizing that we crossed paths. I was at Fox and Latin America also in the early 2000s. So yeah, and I was doing some things with MTV too. So we crossed a lot of paths.

Vinnie Potestivo  3:03  

That’s cool. Well, what they both had in common was, they were in the process of turning the camera around and showing the audience both of those networks before most of the other television programs were out there. We actually had the cameras facing the audience. So the audience was watching the audience. The show I worked on for Fox News was Hannity and Colmes. So it was a you know, a polarizing conversation, both sides of you know, the debate, and an audience that was equally polarizing, and I loved helping people tell their story and an MTV, I love that I got to not just help artists tell their story, but literally given cameras to change their realities. You know, when I got to MTV, in the late 90s, we were auditioning a group of women to be DJs, we saw there was a trend in the female teen singer. So we met with Jessica Simpson. We met with Mandy Moore, Mandy Moore’s amazing and many more became, yeah, she became a VJ on MTV for a long time now. You have to be able to read a little bit of the copy live and talk live. There’s a lot of things going on. Hosting isn’t for everybody; hosting wasn’t right for Jessica Simpson. But reality TV was what she needed to be able to tell people who she was. It was so cool. I got to help them.

Lara Schmoisman  4:26  

She was so good. She was able to shine through reality TV because it was non scripted, which was great.

Vinnie Potestivo  4:36  

And where most celebrities shine is on the red carpet. What I like to do is help find ways for people to impress. And what Jessica was able to do was, you know, shine off the red carpet and for the first time and television consistently, which we’ll talk about because in branding, yes, consistency is absolutely key to personal brand.

Lara Schmoisman  4:56  

All the people that also bury their careers in reality tv

Vinnie Potestivo  5:00  

sure, well, you’re only known for your last hit. How about that? Is that there? So yes, so you might have hosted a TV show. But if you become the president of America, you’ll forever be known as that role instead of, you know, the previous role. Or if you started in the real world and became an actor or an actress, most likely, you don’t even remember that these people started, you know, in reality, but you’re sort of know, or Cardi B, you know, someone who started in reality T, but she’s more known for her music now. So you’re known for your last hit. But that’s arbitrary, because that gets down into audiences. And there are many audiences.

Lara Schmoisman  5:37  

Yeah, absolutely. Well, that’s why it’s so important to niche and to get to know who your audience is. And even I mean, a show in the romance network can affect that personality, because it’s not going to the right audience.

Vinnie Potestivo  5:53  

Yeah. And it was cool. By the way, it was cool working with artists who, in the early 90s, late, early 2000s, late 90s, early 2000s, were creating albums and releasing albums, it’s very similar to us creators now who have to make something and then put it out, which is kind of a new process for us to be really honest, because up until, say, the last five, or maybe even 10 years, if you wanted content, you know, put out to the masses, you had to go to television, or film or there were there were traditional platforms that you had to go to and, and that’s what brought my attention to the side of the camera. And for the last 15 years, I’ve been helping business owners become housewives, on Bravo, have many, many, many series on Bravo, where I helped to find business owners who had a unique skill set, whether it was pregnant in heels, Chef Roebling, CO, you know, I can give the list of amazing entrepreneurs that I’ve helped create their brands, by the use of media, and that all stems from the personal brand. And I love and I love founder-led brands, too. I should point that out, like I do have awesome skin care clients and some a lot of strategy, financial strategy, like a lot of media strategy, a lot of founder led people, founder led business owners that I work with who I really enjoy working with. So it’s not just celebrities, and it applies to all so I’m excited to share them with you.

Lara Schmoisman  7:18  

Yeah, let’s talk about branding. Because as I started the podcast, it’s so different. It’s so hard to have to brand two things. First of all, because you can, it’s like what comes first the egg, or the chicken, the chicken or the egg? So my feeling is that you need to be very consistent, always. And you need to start somewhere. Where do we start?

Vinnie Potestivo  7:42  

Yes. So I think the chicken came before the egg. By the way, I think the chicken was turned from dinosaur into chicken and then chicken into egg and then that’s what will happen. But I just pointed out because we are chickens. The eggs are businesses, because we make many of them, and we nurture them. And the strongest ones, the best ones survive, sometimes the loudest ones survive, sometimes the ones that we neglect the most don’t survive. So I really love the analogy of chicken and egg. But we have to acknowledge that we are chickens. And where does it start? For example, when you’re having the font conversation, you know, some people like to talk about branding in a very tactile, you know, physical way. So okay, let’s start with fonts. How do you describe the font as happy, uplifting, energizing, because these are traits that you might use to describe yourself? Yep. And, I really take a moment when I’m working, especially with founder-led businesses where the personal brand and the business brand have to work so closely in tune with one another because they’re dependent on each other. I’m asking you to trust my company, because I’m showing you how trustworthy its founder is. So that’s a very different process than like, as you said earlier, just having a faceless company with multiple influencers and multiple, multiple, multiple faces, which requires a different way to show maybe that you are trustworthy, maybe you would say we have so many people, that’s why we’re trustworthy. So you’re no longer focusing, you know, on the personal brand,

Lara Schmoisman  9:14  

I think you just said a key word that is focusing and it’s about we only can concentrate so much energy there is only so much you can do. And it’s also for a person who is the CEO or the face of the company. So you need to decide what you’re going to do first. I mean, you can and you need to be very consistent because consistency is what is going to be like a massive attack to your personal brand. Our inconsistency, sorry, inconsistency is going to be like attacking your personal brand or your own brand. Because if you decide, oh, I want to be working really hard and promoting my brand, I want to work with influencers. I want to be Oh, but you know what, now I changed my mind. I want to be doing everything And I want to be using all my budget  for promoting myself. So there was a misuse first. It’s a great, great confusion. Yeah, the brand is brandless. And also, it’s like you use your resources and your mind and your strategy. And then everything goes to trash.

Vinnie Potestivo  10:24  

Yeah, it’s a mismanagement of energy, right. And probably because you miss manage, because that person may have missed and managed energy, they may see the entire project as a failure, instead of that one small step. And what I try to do when I’m helping people launch personal brands, or business brands is try to see success early in the beginning part of the journey, small or large, I think that it’s important for people to get a taste of success, it’s inspiring, it will keep you up late at night, and will it will keep you on the grind. And we’ll keep you moving. I’ve seen too much failure come from lack of money or time. And like you said earlier, there’s only so much you can do now. And you even said it best you said what’s the what’s the thing you’re going to do first. So it’s so two things. One is I want to acknowledge energy, right? So what takes inventory? The first thing I would do if I’m looking at myself as a brand, I would take inventory, what are the things I enjoy doing? What are the things I enjoy showing up on? What are the words that are associated with the verbs and the action words? What are the adjectives like give, give me rich definitions. And because I think it’s very important to be impeccable and articulate in what you’re getting across. Because that’s how you can stand out. That’s how you can impress. And I’m not saying use big words, the smallest words probably write those. In fact, I think they say people who use big words sometimes are trying to project like they know what they’re saying with it. You know, it’s insecurity. I think,

Lara Schmoisman  12:02  

sometimes it’s Yeah, across like trying too hard.

Vinnie Potestivo  12:06  

Yeah, so so so we want to find out what we love doing most. And, by the way, there’s a test that I take. And if you want anyone who’s listening to this, that and you want to DM me, I’ll send you the link. Sally Hogshead is amazing, it’s not a personality test, but it is a self test. And it lets you know, based on what you report back, and lets you know how you’re seen by others, not just your peers, but just in your industry in general. And it just gave me some great words to really hold on to and drill down on and

Lara Schmoisman  12:38  

I would love it for you to give it to me later, we’ll put it in the chapter.

Vinnie Potestivo  12:41  

Oh, great. Yeah, it’s called How to fascinate. I’ll send out so check the podcast notes, I’m excited to share this with you, I promise you, I wouldn’t be where I was if I didn’t take this test myself. And it’s the first thing I do with anyone I work with. Just because it works so well with me, and I’ve never had someone say, I don’t get it. I’ve Oh, there’s always some type of result that comes out of it. That’s amazing. And that just helps you understand the words, you know, so you can identify some of the vocabulary that you’re searching for. Because often we’re looking for answers that we don’t know the questions to. And it’s hard to know the questions when you don’t understand the amount of time that you have to work on a given project. So like you said earlier, there’s only so much you can do. And I think there’s only so much you can do now. So understanding what that course of action is, that’s what we talked about consistency, that’s putting your brand, that consistency is moving your brand forward. If you feel consistent, if you feel like you’re doing something again, here we are, again, that’s an amazing feeling. That means you figured out how part of the machine works and you’re able to use that part again. And you’ll see in the strengths and weaknesses where that what how that pivots you and might keep you in the direction you want to be going in, you know, and it might make you veer to, you know, into into your strength, which you know, hopefully is the experience that you’re having out there.

Lara Schmoisman  14:04  

And also you need to learn about getting thick, you know a little and enjoy little success because like for example, I just got the name Forbes next 1000 which was incredible. i The unexpected that I try, but I didn’t expect that. And I didn’t give up here just from one day to the next. It was step by step, like taking every podcast that someone will invite me everywhere that anyone who wants to talk to me, I will talk to anyone who will listen and you need just to to be aware of the journey and that you in my case I learned at least that you cannot be alone alone is a very lonely place. And mostly when you’re trying to do your own branding, you’re always struggling. Is it the right I’m projecting the right message? I always recommend when you are talking about a personal brand that you have a team behind you, even if it is called the coach, a best friend, whoever you are going to be trusting and keeping you consistent, that you are sending the right message over and over again.

Vinnie Potestivo  15:21  

Yeah, well, being creative, you know, the act of being creative is a very sort of communal way of getting a message across. It’s interactive. It’s meant to be shared. So the, you know, doing things in a silo and, you know, working by yourself may work, but we’ll, we’ll we’ll, I don’t know. I want to say this in an inspiring way. I know. Well, it’s just what a great example is like what I’ve loved about clubhouse, the, the, you know, the live streaming audio app clubhouse is my first off, I found this awesome tribe of people that I love learning with, I don’t know what we’re going to learn. So like, I went to college, I picked my classes based on what I wanted to learn. Now, as an adult, I get to pick what I learn based on who I’m learning with. And I love that because it’s brought so much into my life, I just this week, found out that the death was found out with the definition of the next generation, the Alfa generation, because they are the first generation born entirely in the new 21st century. So they’re named after the first alphabet of the Greek, you know, the first letter of the Greek alphabet alpha. And I think they started like, 2011 2012 is where that’s I, so I didn’t even know that had been established yet. And that that piece of information is an important piece of information to have to, to marketers, to people with a business to people who are selling TV shows, when information like that, you know, comes out,

Lara Schmoisman  16:56  

because they are consumers already.

Vinnie Potestivo  16:58  

Yeah. And that’s the language that that’s the language that you know, that you use in sales. So you want to use a similar language to the

Lara Schmoisman  17:05  

I learned I have two kids, 15 and 17. And I learned so much from them, which is ridiculous. They use platforms that I do not I do not like, for example, they don’t text message, they don’t whatsapp they just discord. Yeah. That, for me, is a completely new world. But for me as a marketer it is really important to understand it.

Vinnie Potestivo  17:29  

Yeah, yeah. And there’s, they’re constantly evolving, ever changing, and there’s only going to be more and more so. So having a strong personal brand. On all of those platforms, it’s really important, you know, and that goes down to, you may decide some silly, some silly ways to show personal branding assets. But effective because it’s anything we do consistently shows dedication, and shows intention. So I’ve seen people always use lowercase letters, I know that it takes actually more effort to write in all lowercase than it does in sentence case, lettering. And I think it’s interesting when people take the time to, you know, or when their names always in the or I, you know, caps is sort of taboo, obviously, because it’s screaming, and there’s that piece, but I really enjoyed seeing, you know, and also, you know, social media has made our personal branding interesting, it’s the digital way that it’s made our personal branding interesting is, is there’s now you know, 56 characters that we can associate with our name. So we now have the ability to put our name and other words or hashtags if we want them to be so

Lara Schmoisman  18:40  

My name is so long that my space is limited. But I want to ask you something. So we gave, I love to give some tips and tricks to our audience. And like, for example, we gave this test which I think it’s great. So what’s next? How do you start a personal brand? Because yeah, a lot of people out there want to say, I want to do it, I want to be my brand. And so how do I do it?

Vinnie Potestivo  19:10  

Yeah, the first thing the first thing I would say is if you’re saying I want to do it and you’re not the first thing I would, I would ask you to ask yourself is like what’s holding you back? So like, let’s just figure out what that is. Usually, there’s some type of friction to create so it takes too long for me to do hair and makeup and wardrobe. It takes too long for me to get the kids quiet and adults quiet. I don’t have the right lighting, I don’t have the right equipment. So there is real, you know, hardware that helps the creative process the same exact way as there is, software that helps, you know, editing and, and the, you know, the whole creating piece. So let’s just assume that. We know how we want to record, we know how we want to show up. One of the ways I like to sort of break the ice is to break the ice before We start recording. So like Don’t Don’t let Hi everyone, how are you doing? This is Vinny, don’t let your intro to your show be the first time you’re saying it, like, say it four or five times off air before and say it out loud. Like, um, you can’t if you’re watching this, you can see that I’m moving my tongue and my cheeks. And you know, I’m doing all of those things you hear about an acting class and you hear you see, when they talk about Bah, you know, it does, it really does. It’s a muscle, the muscles in your face tend to be very, very tight.

Lara Schmoisman  20:32  

Never be unprepared. 

Vinnie Potestivo  20:34  

yeah, stretch. That’s the thing, people, you know, you think you’re ready to run a sprint, but like being content creators is really more of a marathon. Even if it’s a short race, you really want a nice steady rhythm, the last thing you want to do is, you know, jump on talk too fast, and no one can understand you because they’re listening to you from your phone, in a room with lots of you know, noise. Um, I think knowing what you want to say, but in being concise, but knowing what you want to say, I’ve hopped on air before, and I’ve really had nothing that I wanted to say. And I found myself flailing and I didn’t like the experience. And I realized that I’m much better off when I know where I want to go. So I may say, I don’t know what I want to talk about. I’m asking people to come up and say hi to me, be careful what you’re gonna get. I also, you know, work hard for my audience and the people that follow me

Lara Schmoisman  21:28  

 I always say that, you need to always be prepared for the unexpected, because you never know what the other person is going to say what’s gonna come up what happened, but at the same time, you need to have some work done behind, you need to know, who are you talking to a little bit of background story, never. And I did this before, she has to go, oh, I have a podcast, ooh, I went in. And I was okay, I’m blank. So I never do that anymore. I learned that at least I disconnect whatever I was doing before, a few minutes before 1015 minutes, I go over all my information, I’m in my zone, and I’m ready to talk and give my full attention to my guests. So my podcasts or whatever I’m doing, if I’m doing a Facebook Live, or whatever my attention is there, close all the other programs and put your phone in Mute. That’s not respectful to your audience. And audience notice that,

Vinnie Potestivo  22:32  

yeah, and by the way, if you watch, if you go back and watch it, you’ll notice it too. You know, because like, because we because and part of that. So that’s interesting, because that message comes up a lot when we talk about podcasting or being on camera, it’s just being really present. But it’s interesting that we have to give that note, when people are being on camera, like that’s such a note that I get I tell myself a lot in life. And and and wherever I’m at is where I meant to be. And that helps because my phone goes off and my emails golf all day long 24/7. And for the first 20 years of my career, I was a reality TV casting director. So everyone’s got myself a number. And I want them to stay in touch with me. That’s why I do what I do to connect opportunity and people and brands and talent. You know, I love that piece. But it is all about collaborating. Um, you had asked earlier, what are some more free gifts, I’d like to just start, here’s where I’d like to start for the people who are really at the beginning. Or if you’re ready for a reset, I would take one piece of paper, I would draw a line a line down it and I don’t want this on two pieces of paper or in front and back. I want them side by side so you can compare. And on the left side of the paper, I’d like you to write your creative goals. And on the right side of your paper, I’d like you to write your financial goals. And those are two different things. You know, I want to be on television, I want to make money by being on television, two different goal types. And the reason I ask people to separate them is one it gives clarity. So I can measure just like I can measure not just only like the gains that you’ve had as a as a brand but also some of the gaps that I think you’re missing based on you know the trajectory you want to go in it also helps me prioritize like we said earlier, we can only do so much. It helps me prioritize what I’m doing now. And I’m always doing something now. I always have a plan. I have an annual plan now. And that lets me breeze to know that next month I know what I’m diving into. I know what book I want to read. I know what podcast outside of my normal realms of podcasts I want, you know, brought into my life. I put energy into automating some of that energy and education into me so that I can focus on the now part and by understanding your creativity goals and your financial goals. First off, it separates them. They they should not be so compared so similar you know, financial goals are, you know, I made, I made a million dollars and creative goals often are like we spent a million dollars, we we lost we have no more budget, we hired the most amount of people, we were innovative in a field that didn’t need innovation and we created something we didn’t know we needed. That’s not financial goals and and now in this crater economy or in social media, or in the present day and age, however you want to say it, people address and will audit their creative and financial success and often hold them to the same standards. And I want to point that out. They’re  very, they’re two very different things.

Lara Schmoisman  25:43  

It’s the same thing that saying money brings you happiness. Oh, yeah, it’s not I mean, my Oh, bring your happiness, what? Your happiness is something that you get through money.

Vinnie Potestivo  25:56  

Yeah, if you don’t believe that, then look at what I did on Bravo for the last 1015 years, with all the richest people in the world having shows that does not necessarily it was not happiness, that they were showing, you know, there, so no, money does not bring happiness for sure. And, and the branding piece, you know, the personal branding, I look at it as a tool as part as a tool set. So like if, if you know, you know, your, I want to talk about singular personal brand, Id I can talk about ensemble, branding, you know, I cast and you know, Housewives of New Jersey, and there’s lots of ensemble in the hills and Laguna Beach and the Osborn like lots of ensemble shows. TRL was a show that I used to cast back in the day on MTV. And, you know, there’s four or five different hosts. And and just I was I’m bringing it up, because what I got to do on TRL was bring out the most the best, the most unique piece of each of their personalities, whether it was Lala, or Vanessa Shea, or Damien Fahey, or produce, their Suzy Castillo, they all had something unique about them. And whether I gotta do it with a color, or with a hair texture, or the way that glasses were us or the way that’s props or, you know, accessories were given, you know, the personal branding pieces is an extension. Also, I asked myself and I did this even before you know, this conversation here, I specifically say then how do I want this audience who’s listening to this? How do I want them to feel, I don’t want you to feel overwhelmed. I can feel so overwhelmed with the creativity that goes on in his head. I know what that feels like. And oftentimes, that’s, that’s the number one thing that stops people from being successful is just that feeling of being overwhelmed.

Lara Schmoisman  27:47  

And it’s overwhelming. Also, because you feel very lonely.

Vinnie Potestivo  27:51  

Oh, yeah. And you feel like, right, it’s, you’re in the silo again, you feel like you’ve done something wrong, perhaps. We were trained to,

Lara Schmoisman  27:58  

It’s very hard to judge ourselves. It’s hard. I mean, I can do things for my clients that I can do with my eyes closed, but it’s when it’s my brand is like, Am I seeing it? Right? Because we don’t see ourselves how other people see us.

Vinnie Potestivo  28:15  

Mm hmm. It’s absolutely true. Yeah, right. And sometimes both think, well, you know, I don’t deserve something like that so I sort of open up another level to what we’re talking about, like part of building a celebrity brand. And when I start using that word, what that means to me as a brand that is celebrated. So, part of building a celebrity brand is winning awards, you know, celebrities win awards because it helps them differentiate from each other. You hear are, you know, was it Forbes next 1000? Yeah, that’s pretty big. The first your first generation first the first generation of Forbes next 1002. So the first ever the first of the first 1000 which is so cool. And those are little things that will differentiate you from future Forbes next 1000s Is that you were you were the first of the first

Lara Schmoisman  29:13  

I mean, everything is unique. It’s an authority you get in your space. That’s why Hong Kong wins and Oscars authority. wins an Emmy in whatever space you are, that gives you authority to your brand.

Vinnie Potestivo  29:27  

Yeah, they win authority they also they also win visibility, they’re also placed on the list that is often published, and

Lara Schmoisman  29:35  

I call that relevance is Yeah, absolutely. I always say that marketing is two things. I’ll start at the end with relevance. Yeah. people to know that you’re the best at what you’re doing and relevant people to find it.

Vinnie Potestivo  29:47  

Absolutely. And people love working with award winning actors, directors, so So there are hundreds of awards that are out there. If the giving awesome do these before I’m very excited to share this with you actually, I didn’t think I was gonna say I’m giving away so much but please DM me I have a list of about 80 of the podcast digitally I’ve done some work because I realized that a lot of people aren’t submitting for less for worse they qualify for I actually in this process realized most people don’t know that for the Academy Awards, you have to pay to be like nominated you have to pay to be in consideration. That’s what thank you for your consideration means so so not only do you have to pay to be in the academy, you know, I like to think the academy, so not only do they pay the academy, but each producer that’s attached to the project that’s being submitted has to pay a headcount fee. So I realized I never had

Lara Schmoisman  30:44  

 so you know, most of the viewers out there unless it has a sponsor, you’re gonna have to pay to be considerate.

Vinnie Potestivo  30:52  

Oh yeah. webby tallies, the W threes communicator awards, there are some great digital awards that are out there that are worth it, you know. But it’s important, I think it’s important to win awards and credits. It’s important to take credit now that podcasts are starting to talk to more and more regular people. IMDB actually has changed how the credit system works. It used to be solely for actors and actresses, and performers. And now you can be yourself on IMDb. So if you’re on a podcast that’s on IMDb, by the way, I don’t know if this podcast is listed in IMDB. But not only could this podcast to be listed as IMDb and you as the host and executive producer, but then I would be you know a guest in your in your show and that just lets you know TV Booker’s and, yeah, it’s so a magazine publishers, you know, find you like I love the idea of relevance. This is a great refinement of what I was saying before. I like it, 

Lara Schmoisman  31:52  

it anytime. Well, before we go, I want to ask you the last question. And this is one I want to hear because I love storytelling, and it’s about the mistake and mistakes that you made, and that we can learn from it.

Vinnie Potestivo  32:09  

Ooh, that’s a great one mistake that I’ve learned from well, you know, I have a very technical job, like, there’s a lot of data transfer. And there’s a lot of a job that I’ve had and have shared, like, a lot of my job is getting the right the right file and the right size, the right hands. And too many times I’ve seen projects I’ve seen, I’ve seen reels, I’m not hit the mark, because like you were saying the inability for people to sort of see themselves. So there have been projects that, you know, I’ve been quick to not understand, you know, in my limited, you know, space that I that I have, but I’ve you know, passed on or talent that, you know, I tried to hire that we you know, we couldn’t get hired or and I think back to I think back to how some of these projects could have left MTV, I think back to how many times we we lost, you know, almost lost, you know, big shows like Like, like, like while I’m out on MTV almost, you know, was Pat Nick past Nick pitch the show on MTV passed on it. Nick was dating Christina Milian at the time and they took the winter break, they went and recorded, he invested in something he recorded something and came back with tape to show the executives MTV what he was talking about. And Christina Milian was like the first celebrity sort of, you know, there’s two Celebrity Teams that go head to head. And so it’s not necessarily like a mistake that I’ve made. But it’s a mistake we made, you know, at the network where, where we were given a second opportunity to look at a project. But we also, we also I realized at that moment, I didn’t do this because I was very junior at the time, but I saw the executives, I remember when they passed on the project, they told him why. And he took those notes, and he listened and he addressed them. So many times I’ve seen no one come in. And if someone wants to work with you, they’ll go the distance to give you, you know, like you said, this is where personal branding is different from business branding, because businesses really can’t make mistakes, but people do. And that’s the human part of it and how you rebound how the institution you surround yourself with, to allow yourself to make mistakes, like for me, I have to make mistakes because I’m constantly in New Territories. But I make you know, good mistakes. I make some bad mistakes, but they’re low risk. Because I’ve learned you know, I’ve I’ve learned risk management which is all about you know, energy management, time management. And without that, without time management, it’s like nothing. So I think back to so many opportunities, I’m sure that could have should have been would have happened. But, but I’m, I’m happy to say that I’ve never looked back and thought something wasn’t successful because I wasn’t part of it. I’m happy to say that like these, all these projects live to their full potential, you know, either way, one way or the other. And, and oftentimes, like, I get looped in, and like Season Two or season three of something if I missed the first season, so there’s always this, but that goes back to time. And that’s

Lara Schmoisman  35:37  

right, it should need to be the right time for you too. sometimes get the right time. Yeah, sometimes it’s just not. Thank you so much for having coffee with me today. I really, really enjoy our conversation and  everyone else. I see you guys next week at Coffee number five. It was so good to have you here today. See you next time. Catch you on the flipside. Ciao ciao.