00:02
Lara
Hi, everyone. Welcome back to coffee number five. My coffee is ready for another great chat today. And today I brought you someone from Toronto, all the way from our friends in Canada and a youtuber. I mean, I don’t think we ever had a youtuber in the show, so I’m super excited. Welcome, Sara. 

00:25
Sarah
Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. 

00:27
Lara
Yeah, no, I mean, it’s a huge accomplishment to become a successful youtuber because also requires a lot of work and consistency. 

00:38
Sarah
Oh, yeah, for sure. It has been almost a decade now that I’ve been creating content and mostly on YouTube, but now a little bit on TikTok, so it definitely requires a lot of consistency and, yeah, I really enjoy it, though. 

00:54
Lara
Let’s start from the beginning. Why did you, why did you start creating videos? Because a decade ago is a lot of videos to makeup. 

01:03
Sarah
Yeah, for sure. Well, I’ve always been really into makeup. One of my best memories from childhood is playing with makeup with my mom and my sister. I grew up in a very female household, so I always had a huge passion for makeup. And I remember when I was 16 and I picked up my first Mac eyeliner and when I put it on, I felt just like a woman, like I grew into a woman. And I just love the feeling of makeup so much that YouTube was such an obvious medium because I learned everything about makeup through YouTube. I watched like, Michelle Fawn and Jennem and all these asian youtubers, and they really taught me how to do makeup. And because I consumed that content so much, I wanted to create my own content. 

01:48
Sarah
So I was in the second year university when I started just using my phone and just table lamps. I had in a kind of like a weird setup in my dorm, and I just started creating content, filming videos, learning how to edit, and it was really fun and it really started out as a passion for me. But after I graduated, I realized I could start making money off of it. So that became my full time job. I started making more YouTube videos and. 

02:14
Lara
Okay, how do you make money as a youtuber? There’s a lot of people, and I’m sure a lot of young people, because I heard a lot of people say, I don’t know if I need a job, I can become a youtuber and make money. 

02:26
Sarah
Of course. Yeah, I think that’s like an area that’s always a bit of a mystery, but there’s a couple different avenues. So first is adsense, and I think that is the majority of maybe more entertainment style youtubers where they don’t take as many sponsorships then adsense would be a majority of their income. So that would be kind of pre roll ads like the, as you see before YouTube videos. Another way, of course, is brand sponsorships, which is really big, I think in the beauty space on YouTube where brands would reach out to you for a campaign and then you would insert like a little bit of a pitch for YouTube video. 

03:06
Lara
Do you use any platforms to be accessible to brands? 

03:12
Sarah
Well, I think maybe now it’s a little bit more developed, but I kind of did it the OG way, where you just leave your business email in the description of the video, and brands tend to reach out to you that way. And now I have, I’ve been working with my manager, Lori, for I think six, seven years now. So she has been handling a lot of the brand sponsorships for me. 

03:33
Lara
That’s fantastic. That’s fantastic that you were able to evolve and to change the way you work, because you need that support so you can keep doing what you need to do. That they are the videos. 

03:46
Sarah
Yeah, absolutely. And even through all of it, I think now it’s a lot easier. But back then I, even though I was really excited to get brand sponsorships, I turned down probably 80% of them. Like, I really want to maintain that authenticity throughout my whole journey. So it’s not something you can, like where you get a campaign and you have to take it, so you have to be selective. I think as a content creator, what kind of deals you take on the. 

04:16
Lara
Yeah, absolutely. 

04:17
Sarah
That’s. 

04:18
Lara
What’s your no area in aseptin a deal? Sorry, what’s the no area to not ash. 

04:25
Sarah
Oh. So I have very sensitive skin and I kind of ruined my skin barrier testing out so many different skincare products. And I really learned what products are, I mean, what ingredients are particularly irritating to me. So anything with essential oils or alcohol is a strict no for me. And sometimes that’s like rejecting a lot of money, but I have a very strict rule about it and my viewers know it. They understand that I, as someone with sensitive skin, won’t be promoting products that are just very high concentration essential oils. 

05:02
Sarah
And overall, I really want to make sure the products that I’m pitching or the products that I’m, promoting on my platforms are very effective because at the end of the day, if someone purchases the product and they use it at home, they’re going to know exactly, like, is this effective or is it not? And just marketing it without, like if the product isn’t effective and I’m marketing it’s sort of. I don’t know, it feels unethical to me. And people will find out sooner or later when they get the product, and that doesn’t help to build trust between you and the viewer. So throughout my life, I think as. 

05:40
Lara
An agency owner and I consult a lot of clients about what’s the future of influencers? That’s something that I always say that you need to go for authenticity. I prefer. I really don’t. I think the public can see through and they don’t want to work with those influencers. They don’t believe those influencers, that they’re constantly pushing products. 

06:05
Sarah
Yeah, absolutely. And I think people are getting smarter and smarter. Like, the more influencers they follow and more content they consume, they understand they can definitely see through it and it doesn’t help anyone. I think it doesn’t help the influencer or the consumer for the influencer to be pushing products that aren’t effective. So that has been a really strict rule for me. 

06:31
Lara
What do you come up with ideas for your content? Because not all your content is based in pushing product. 

06:39
Sarah
Yeah, well, a lot of it is just my passion for makeup. Like, in the beginning of my YouTube journey for, I think the first two years, I didn’t make a single dime off of YouTube. And that was also because I was on a student visa in the US, so I couldn’t. But during that time, I was just really focused on creating content that are engaging, like makeup tutorials and any, you know, stuff like that. And I also pull a lot of inspiration from what people requests of me and also what is trending at the time. And I really like to infuse bits of pop culture into my videos as well. 

07:17
Sarah
So I did a tutorial that’s called the Kim K sex tape makeup tutorial because it’s such an iconic cultural moment in the two thousands, and that for better or worse, it’s not as glamorous, but a lot of people love her look in that video. So I like to pull little bits of pop culture and put it into my makeup tutorials. It might not be the most editorial looks, but it’s images that people remember and it’s kind of burned into their brain. So that’s what I like to do. 

07:46
Lara
I love that. I love the idea of creating a parallel of what people are consuming and because it’s entertaining at the end of the day. And also it’s. I’m horrible at makeup. I’m absolutely horrible at makeup. But I really enjoy people that they are able because I think it’s a talent to be able to do certain looks, and so maybe you learn a skill, too, also when you watch these videos. 

08:15
Sarah
Yeah, it’s super fun for me. It’s. The everyday looks are really fun, but sometimes, like, for example, this year, Pat McGrath did, like, a porcelain doll look for the Margiela Runway, and it was. She used a gel mask on top of a fully done makeup, like, makeup look, and she just airbrushed it on, and it’s something I’ve never seen before. And when I saw that on my instagram, the first thing in the morning, I ran to canadian tire. I bought the airbrush machine and tried it at home. And it’s like, little moments like that really inspires me to just keep trying different things in makeup. 

08:51
Lara
Do you look, do you follow a lot of other makeup artists? 

08:56
Sarah
Oh, yeah, for sure. I follow, like, Pat McGrath, Patrick Ta. A lot of people who are really big icons in the makeup industry, I pull a lot of inspiration from them, for sure. 

09:07
Lara
So when did you realize that being an youtuber could be a career for you? 

09:15
Sarah
Honestly, in the beginning, it was not clear that it could become a career. It could become a career for me. I think it was when I met my manager, and she actually helped me negotiate, and I was making enough through my brand deals that I could support myself and pay rent. That’s when I was like, oh, maybe this could be a full time thing, because for a long time, I didn’t see it as a way out. Like, it. You know, even with sponsorships, I wasn’t paying my bills, and it wasn’t clear to me that this could become a career path. But when I started to make enough that I could support myself, it was like, oh, okay, maybe I should keep trying in this path. 

09:59
Lara
And do you think that from here on, there is another. There’s more room to grow for you, or there is going to be a stop and you need to look into something else? 

10:08
Sarah
Well, I’m not sure because it’s still such a new industry. So many people kind of graduate from YouTube and do different things, like start their own businesses or they can get into television and, you know, a lot of different paths. I haven’t decided what my second act is really going to be, and right now my main focus is, of course, in Satchu beauty. So I don’t know what’s the next step for me. 

10:33
Lara
So there is a. A whole new platform out there, which is TikTok shop. I know that you’re getting your feet wet in that platform, so how do you work with TikTok Shop and how do you monetize? 

10:47
Sarah
Yeah, absolutely. So we’ve been selling with TikTok Shop, I think, since the inception of TikTok shop, and it really helped that they were able to, you know, because they were trying to push TikTok shop and make sure people are comfortable shopping from the platform, that they helped us a lot in onboarding and, you know, putting our products on there and really learning how their algorithm works. So that really helped. And we also have been reaching out. So they have a built in affiliate program in TikTok shop, and that really helps us with making sure we can get the word out. And every time there’s a product launch. 

11:27
Lara
I think that there is. I think we’re confusing here, people, because there was another part of your story, that you have a beauty brand, too. 

11:37
Sarah
Yes. 

11:37
Lara
That we didn’t touch onto that yet. So you are in TikTok shop as a brand, or you are in TikTok shop as an influencer? 

11:47
Sarah
As a brand, actually, because in Canada, there’s no TikTok shop yet. So I always have to use. 

11:52
Lara
That’s right. 

11:54
Sarah
Every time I go to the states, I try to do a little bit more, but it’s mostly the brand right now. 

11:59
Lara
Yeah, that’s right. So how do you work with influencers in the and with affiliates in the shop? 

12:06
Sarah
So they have a built in affiliate program, and we have a team that selects the people that would work with us, and we also send a lot of product out, and we can kind of set kind of the ROI for each campaign, and they would create content and they get a certain commission, and we give a really high commission, but it depends on how many views they get also. So the more views they get, the higher the commission. And that has really helped us get the word out. Every time we have a product launch, any campaigns going on, and even beyond TikTok shop, the affiliate program, you can do certain campaigns that are for retailers. 

12:48
Sarah
So when we do Ulta launches and we do a certain display or expansion of our NCAP at Ulta, we will do a specific campaign to reach out to influencers, and they will go into the stores and film like, what purchasing products from OTA is like, you do. 

13:06
Lara
That from TikTok also or you do it from other platforms? 

13:10
Sarah
Yeah, it’s all inside of TikTok shop. 

13:13
Lara
That’s amazing. And the opportunities that you can have through TikTok Shop. And I’m asking all these questions because we have a lot of brands out there, so we want to know also about your brand journey and why you started your brand and what it makes it a little different, of course. 

13:32
Sarah
So it has been four years now. We started during COVID kind of that time, and, well, there was me and my co founders, we met in 2019 and they were very good at beauty manufacturing. And I had all these years of creating content and being so immersed in the beauty space. It was really kind of a perfect match for us because they were able, I had all these ideas of how to improve products because I was doing product testing basically for the last five years and meeting them and them having the manufacturing know how, it really helped bring our first products to life, which was the stainless steel Gua Shawn roller. And after about a year of product development, we launched and it was just on our website at that point, it was only DTC. 

14:29
Sarah
And we slowly caught the attention of the Kardashians within like three months of launch, which is so insane to us. And then we started selling on push and then we caught the attention of Ulta and it really started from there and we became more omnichannel over time. But yeah, that’s the story of how we started and the philosophy we carry throughout our entire brand. Even though we do know both skincare and makeup, the philosophy we carry through our entire brand is that product should come first. The product always comes first because that is what the consumers interact with on a daily basis. 

15:06
Sarah
So we really want to make sure there is a tangible difference in whether it’s skincare products that actually feels different and is more durable, or if it’s makeup that lasts all day on your lips compared to other, you know, long wear lip liner on the market. I really want to make sure I’m improving the consumer’s life, even in a very small way. So that’s something we care a lot about in our entire brand journey. 

15:32
Lara
So I am looking at your website, if it’s everyone who, looking in YouTube right now, you can see that I’m looking to the right because I’m looking at your website and you have a lot of different gadgets, but also you’re going after a very specific target audience. Who is your target audience and why you decided to go after them? 

15:52
Sarah
Yeah, so I wouldn’t say we have an actual super specific target audience, actually, even though we do target our marketing towards Gen Z, so many different age groups purchase our products, like the lip liner saying, for example, because it lasts all day and you don’t have to do any touch ups. It’s actually very popular with moms and athletes, which is something I want that, yeah, it’s something that we. We didn’t do campaigns specifically geared towards them, but because Gen Z is so powerful in how they kind of control culture, like, everything trickles down from Gen Z. And because of that, I think our campaigns are geared towards them. But they really helped get the word out. 

16:42
Sarah
For example, when were doing a meet and greet at Ulta a couple months back, a lot of people actually brought their moms, and their moms actually used the lip liner stain as well. So it was really interesting to see how, you know, Gen Z is so powerful, and because of their control of the social media voice, they can really help trickle down into other demographics as well. 

17:07
Lara
Yeah, absolutely. And so how you come up with ideas of your products. 

17:12
Sarah
So it’s the stainless steel Gua Shawn roller that was very intuitive to me because I have been so immersed in the beauty space for so long and having all these conversations with other beauty influencers and dermatologists, it was so obvious that the jade roller that was dominant at the time needed improvement. Because it’s a natural stone, it breaks easily, and it is a porous material. So stainless steel was such a obvious alternative to that. And that became really successful because of the change of material. And with the lip liner stains and all our ongoing launches, we realized that we really need to listen to what people want. 

17:55
Sarah
And I think me, as a beauty content creator, I understood the gap between what the consumers are screaming and yelling that they want on social media and what people are, what brands are trying to sell them. So because there’s such a big gap, I really try to integrate the comments that they make for us. Like, they give us product ideas in the comments, or if a certain TikTok of mine goes viral, I will see that as the market telling me this, there is a need here. There is something here. They want this product, whatever it is, and we should develop something great out of it. So the lip liner stain, for example, started off with a viral TikTok that I made where I use a brow stain as a. 

18:38
Sarah
As a lip liner, and I, like, made a TikTok out of it as a hack. And it quickly got, I think now it’s at 10 million views. I could be wrong. Yeah. But that was sort of like a test of the market. People resonate with this issue, and we took that and created a product out of it. And even our newest launch, the lip elixir. So everyone on chinese social media were looking to shade match a bunny tongue. For whatever reason, they think it’s the best, most universal pink lip gloss color. 

19:14
Lara
Are you wearing it? 

19:16
Sarah
I am wearing it, but because it was so popular on chinese social media, I made a TikTok out of it and that also went viral. So kind of using the virality as a signal from the market that there is a niche here, there is a need for a product here. So we use that and then we create something out of it. And that has been proven to be a quite successful formula for us. 

19:43
Lara
So do you think that anything that is happening with your brand would have happened if you wouldn’t be a youtuber or TikToker? 

19:53
Sarah
Well, that’s a really good question. I think the fact that I have a lot of followers definitely helps, but I absolutely don’t think that is the reason for the success of such a beauty. I think the majority of my customers actually don’t know who I am or they learn about the brand first and then they learn about me, which is something that I love because it speaks to the fact that the products stand on its own and the brand stands on its own. And I think it’s because I’m not just using or leveraging my platform to promote the product, but actually using what I learned in those years of creating beauty content as a vehicle for understanding the market and understanding how to improve product development, because you’re constantly getting feedback as a content creator on what people want in the beauty industry. 

20:45
Sarah
So I think if I didn’t have that experience, I wouldn’t be, you know, contributing as much or creating these products as effectively in product development. However, I do think the platform, I don’t think the platform I had is the sole reason for the success of the brand. 

21:05
Lara
Absolutely. I agree with you. But what I agree with you the most is that you listen to your audience. I think that’s one of the most important things any brand can do, is really get in touch with what people have to say about their products and not to be or the products in the market just to do. We cannot. I see a lot of brands that they’re so in love with their ideas, and maybe you have an idea, it just works for you and you don’t know if others will be interested. 

21:34
Sarah
Absolutely. Sometimes it’s. Yeah, you need to listen to what people want and what the market wants. It’s not always about what you want. 

21:44
Lara
Exactly. Absolutely. Because otherwise you can get stuck with a lot of products that nobody wants. 

21:50
Sarah
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. We learned that lesson, too. 

21:53
Lara
Oh, I love to hear that. 

21:55
Sarah
Yeah. We did a skincare launch shortly after the success of the stainless steel gouache and roller. And even though those products, in my opinion, were really just incredible, high quality skincare products that were low irritation, essential oil free, I love those products. But it was much more difficult to communicate that to our audience online. And they were also. It’s much more difficult to get someone to switch from their current favorite moisturizer to a different moisturizer without feeling it on their hands. And we didn’t have as much of a retail presence at the time. And because even though I truly believed in the skincare products, the market didn’t seem to agree. So. So that was something that we learned quickly, and we. The line has since been discontinued, but it definitely was a lesson to. 

22:47
Lara
What did you do with all that product? 

22:50
Sarah
Well, it was on sale for a little bit, and I kept a lot of the products as well because my mom. Yeah, I love it myself, and my mom loves all my products, so I sent her a lot of. A lot of those products as well. But, yeah, it wasn’t a. It wasn’t a complete, you know, like, no one was buying those products. It was still popular, but it wasn’t as popular as our stainless steel gouache on roller. It wasn’t as popular as the lip liner stain. So we kind of can see what works and what doesn’t. And that, you know, every brand has kind of a learning curve in the first couple of years, so it was to be expected. 

23:29
Lara
Well, thank you so much, Sara, for being here with us today. This was amazing journey to learn how you went from making a first video to own your own skincare line and to be successful at it, which is not easy. 

23:45
Sarah
Thank you so much, and thank you for having me. 

23:48
Lara
And to you guys, I will see you next week with more coffee. Number five. 

23:53
Sarah
Amazing.