Influence that with Alessandro Bogliari of The Influencer Marketing Factory
Lara Schmoisman 00:05
This is Coffee N.5. I’m your host, Lara Schmoisman. And we are live on Facebook and as always say welcome back to Coffee N.5. Today I’m drinking tea, no coffee, but I’m making an exception, but because I really drink, drank too much coffee. And as everyone knows, in the audience, I’m not at the anger anymore. And there are a lot of things that I had to learn as I go like, today, there are so many online trainings that you can take for anything you want to learn. Even I have an online online training that teaches you the ecosystem, but influencer marketing is something really, really new. And I want to talk a little bit more in depth on how the brands work with influencers because it’s something that I do a lot with my clients. So I invited Alessandro Bogliari . That’s how you say it. Almost like okay, just tell it to me with an Italian accent. I need to hear that.
Alessandro Bogliari 01:12
Lara Schmoisman 01:13
Then I have, right. Well, thank you so much for being here at Coffee N.5. Thank you for having me. Um, so how did you start with this? How did you find that there was actually a niche for influencers, marketing, and tell us a little more how an agency works with our clients and their brands in finding influencers?
Alessandro Bogliari 01:35
Yeah, definitely. I mean, it started actually, I think, well, maybe five years ago or something like that, when I was in Copenhagen, Denmark. So I was still in Europa, and I was transitioning from like, growth, marketing, so helping you like, you know, companies, getting more clients, especially for like platforms and SAS, I will see like, something was definitely interesting. And if somebody was already, like, cool in that way, but it was a bit different, you know, what’s coming from the marketing of blogs, Instagram was getting more powerful day by day. So long story short, I start studying that I was still actually finishing my master degree in digital animation management and I wrote my thesis on influencer marketing. So, you know, I was like, there is not that much in, you know, in the academia about influencer marketing. So I was already working in that space for another company. And it was like, the informative side of the influencer marketing. Okay. So after spending, like, you know, several months on that, it was like, I mean, you know, while like, I know, what does it mean to like, you know, being in a marketing agency, I know everything now about like influencer marketing. So I was like, why don’t I start actually, like, you know, an agency just about these. And so I moved to Miami, I started different things with other people. Then I said, You know what, let’s let’s go by myself. I actually co founded the Friends of Acme factory not even three years ago, to bother to say that we even went into more niche, we went only on tik tok at the beginning. And this was like three years ago, when Tick Tock was still at the beginning. And other lots of people were thinking as a marketing channel, you know, again, I saw a blue ocean there, I was definitely not the first opening up an agency for instance, in Miami, they were like ready several out there. But maybe there was something still missing in your between like having an influencer marketing agency also working not just on the activity, but also the data on you know, having your clients always happy on certain metrics and KPIs. And let’s go with that. Let’s have a course on Tik Tok. It’s something new, no one else is offering that and we started getting since the beginning. Fantastic, fantastic clients. I’m talking about Sony Music, Warner Music, Universal Music Group, Google, that Dunkin BOD like and many others, because again, they wanted to talk about something new and we were one of the few you know, in first mega agency offering that and then you know, after that we start growing and I can tell you more about that maybe later but uh, yeah, this this will happen like in the in the last I’d say not not even three years.
Lara Schmoisman 04:06
That’s amazing. Okay. So, let’s give start from the beginning someone who has an estore or a business and say okay, I want to work with the influencer marketing. So, they will approach you and something that I always recommend is my clients need to understand that there are different levels of influencers and to explain the different levels of influencers that we have that from nano macro and all of those at what it means. Of course, I
Alessandro Bogliari 04:36
mean, like First of all, it depends really like on which social media you are on right because and nano influencer or maybe let’s see definitely macro influencer on Instagram might be seen as a medium influencer on YouTube and might be seen as a micro influencers on tik tok, right. So, sizes of following is different depending on geolocation depending on industry and so on, like, if you’re like, into into crypto nowadays it’s a bit better. But if you were looking at people in the crypto like, you know, one year ago, you were able to find only people with a small following because it was really niche. So it’s important to understand that whenever it depending like the social media and also your strategy, but um, you know, a lot of times, especially maybe store that are like locally in a place, right, so they want to look for someone specifically in a place, the best will be usually to go with, you know, different micro influencers from the same area that might most probably are going to have other friends and influence in the neighbor or the area of the city. So instead of just trying to beat on one big macro influencer, you know, if you can have like 10 meter ones, you know, they’re gonna do their work right in, try to eat rice, the others maybe come to your store, or do certain actions and so on. So one thing is the site’s a macro, medium macro, celebrity influencers, you know, you can edit in different ways. But what I want to say all the time it is data nowadays, luckily, it’s not just anymore about the number of followers, right? Of course, this is something else, like it’s several years that people say, it’s not just about the following, it’s about the engagement rate, the type of content, the historical data, how many people were actually able to bring you to the store or to download the output?
Lara Schmoisman 06:20
How can you get that that?
Alessandro Bogliari 06:22
So the data there, like, I’d say, a capital waste? I mean, more than a capital, of course, but if I had to make it really simple, they’re like a capital. So the first it might like sounds common sense, but it is to reach out to influencers and ask them to data. So and we could also cover how to reach out to influencers. That is also a big mistake.
Lara Schmoisman 06:44
Yes, I want to hear that,
Alessandro Bogliari 06:46
we can definitely talk about that. But I like one of the first and these way is definitely to reach out to influencers and tell them more about your project your about your store, about your brand, whatever. And ask them like, in order for me to understand if you’re the right fit, I need to see your demographic breakdown. I’m talking about age split gender split geolocation, you usually want to see the free ad the first three countries, and even the biggest cities, okay of audience, the normal
Lara Schmoisman 07:15
is called like a media kit.
Alessandro Bogliari 07:17
Exactly, exactly. So in a media kit, usually about your pricing, like, you know, for one story, one story, and YouTube video and Instagram post, you can have a bundle, you know, so there is definitely somebody can ask that actually. And usually those data, at least in terms of demographics, if they send you screenshots from their phone is 100% accurate. Unless they don’t change some feeling Photoshop Bara, you know, that’s the data taken directly from let’s say, Instagram analytics, you know,
Lara Schmoisman 07:47
yeah, but it would be really silly, because as an agency, and that’s why it’s something that normally you want to do it with us with an agency in the middle. Because we have other tools that we pay a lot of money for tools to be able to get that information, correct.
Alessandro Bogliari 08:03
Exactly. And in fact, that was the other the other way. So depending on your budget, you know, if you’re, if you do not have a budget, it’s gonna be more manual, and you’re gonna have to ask directly to the people, or they’re like a plethora of platforms, that goes from $20, some offer up to $100,000 a month,
Lara Schmoisman 08:21
what’s your favorite platform,
Alessandro Bogliari 08:23
I mean, I have a different range. And we also have like different ways to do things. I like a lot hypeauditor HYP, a, the it, auditor, it’s a tool that has many, like no free tools. And then you can go on a monthly subscription, that To be honest, not that expensive compared to other tools. So that one, I like it. There like many others, I don’t want to get too much technical, or, you know, like spending too much time on that, like, Sarah, what I all the time suggests it is to don’t take like anything that is expensive thinking that he’s going to be better because a lot of blood for some for free might be really expensive. And I’m talking about hundreds of $1,000 per year if the enterprise or some 10s of 1000s of dollars per year, even just for medium level. And they might offer you the same that you can find also with cheaper platforms, the majority of these are less they it’s almost crypt data, right? The majority of these platforms, some others, they have like vetted influencers. So it means that they requested you know, their own data. But again, I don’t want to get too much tech, just to say my biggest advice is like start small, especially if you do not know about influencer marketing, start small go with like maybe free trials on platform sisters pending a little beta. And then if you need more, you can always upgrade. But a lot of platforms. They ask you like one year of commitment, and it’s really difficult to you know, run away from those contracts. So again, for everyone that is listening, they want to test out things go with something was super level see if you like it’s
Lara Schmoisman 10:01
also something really important for you to start when you work with influencers, you need to know that you’re working with people. So like you were saying before, asking this media kit is a great way to validate that information that they sending is correct. Because if there’s any new incorrect information, which happens, this may be something that you need to take into account, by the time of choosing to work with that person or not,
Alessandro Bogliari 10:29
one of the percent of what I say all the time is spend a bit more time in finding the influencers, analyzing their data, then trying to rush it, and then you’re going to maybe pay extra money just because you didn’t check analytics, you know, in the proper way. So I know it’s boring sometimes takes time. It’s time consuming,
Lara Schmoisman 10:47
you’re talking to a gig, so I love the things. Anyway, okay, you throw that out there. So now I need to know how we communicate with an influencer? How would we apply approach an influencer? Yeah,
Alessandro Bogliari 11:00
so it really depends, if you go solo in house, you know, or you go with an agency. So let’s
Lara Schmoisman 11:05
go in solo,
Alessandro Bogliari 11:07
solo, do not blast emails to everyone, no one likes to be one of the many. Okay, so, if you are reaching out to someone, let’s say an Instagram influencer, you want to show this person that you actually spend time on their profile, you want to check if they are a good fit for you, maybe you can mention, like, I saw that a month ago, you were in this place, you know, and we do have a store there. And these these and that. And since you have these tunnel boys, this type of audience and this type of content, you know, like it was like, You are showing this person that actually you really spend time and you want that person who’s not just plus,
Lara Schmoisman 11:50
so you want to wine and dine them? Yeah, I mean, like, it’s like, you know,
Alessandro Bogliari 11:54
it’s like, you want to add them like finish special because again, influencers, especially the good ones, the receiver tends to progress every single day. Imagine it’s like similar to is similar in a way to when you try to pitch something to a journalist, if you make it personal, you make it like you know, tailored on their needs, they’re gonna get back to you, if instead you go to a journalist, say like, a, you know, I really call the nail about pitching, you know, something that they won’t even reply to you. The same is also for influencers, you don’t want to tell them like, you’re going to get paid this fixed amount. And this is a this is the promo code like, you know, again, you want to show them that you took the time to look at their profile, and that that’s already make like a huge difference, you know, do one email by one email, there are also ways to make automatic email where you can do you know, some part of the message that is automatic and dynamic,
Lara Schmoisman 12:49
you want to personalize it, yeah, tailor underneath on them, when everything, also engage with their social medias, because who wants to see how they respond, how they, because at the end of the day, you’re expecting them to do that organically for a brand. So you want to see how that person responds and interact with their audience.
Alessandro Bogliari 13:11
100% what I would do all the time, do not only track the organic content, so not only like those videos or photos about their daily life, go and check how they crafted, like the message around the promoted poster, and see also the sentiment analysis of their audience on those on those promoted posts to see are is the audience liking these promoted posts or not? First of all, okay, and what was the sentiment knowledge about that, and also, as you correctly said, how these influencers are applied to the audience related to a certain product, because you want to see how they’re gonna communicate, you know, about about certain, you know, like, promotional. So, again, it’s very time consuming, I’m not gonna lie, it takes time. But again, if you want to face properly and correctly, and even a good ROI on that type of campaign, you should like analyze, you know, the people that are going to work with,
Lara Schmoisman 14:01
of course, and also something really important to analyze is who, for who else they’re working for who else are doing sponsor content, you don’t want someone needed that is that your competitor or something, that it doesn’t align with the same values that your company does? Because we something that I always talk about is the core beliefs, and that you need to always be respecting those in your branding. Even if you’re using an influencer, you need to align with those influencers.
Alessandro Bogliari 14:30
Yeah, one of the percent I mean, some of these platforms allows you to see if these influencers already spoke or mentioned another competitor in the past, so you can definitely run an analysis on that. And also, as you said, it’s important to understand if this like there is a matching between the price and devalue you know of the brand and you know, you can do that like in different ways, but one way is also to see if in the organic posts in the past they may You already mentioned the brand without being paid. That means that you know, like, you know, one of one example that I can think of is one of the talents that we were presented, he was already a big fan of Dunkin, okay? And, and then he got, like, you know, brand deals from Dunkin, where we outside, you know, like these, these inferences to get actually get paid by Dunkin. And what I’ve learned is that before, he was already talking about Dunkin in an organic way, so the following, you know, like, knew that their promotional like, you know, their promoted posts were actually something authentic, because he was already logged with the brand before. No. So if you if you if you can find someone that maybe already tagged your store your brand, whatever, on Instagram on or mentioned that on YouTube or on tik tok, you maybe can reach out and say, Hey, I saw that you already actually talking about my brand, you know, they want to do something with us, and you already know that that person is going to be a good one because they were already in love with your brand, even even without, like, you know, being paid. So that’s a really good start.
Lara Schmoisman 16:01
Let’s talk about something important. Let’s talk about money. Okay, who makes it First of all, the company they influencer?
Alessandro Bogliari 16:10
So again, it depends, I’d say how professional is the influencer, as you said, like, you know, when you mentioned by the media kit, the most professional ones have a media kit with a certain sort of pricing table, depending on the deliverables, right. You can always negotiate Be respectful for, like, you know, to the influencer, like you have to recognize that that is a full time job, especially for the majority, you know, that are doing that. So you cannot go with a lower bar. Like, you know, just saying counteroffer that doesn’t make sense. You know, if, if the person is asking you $10,000 for a post, we can go back, like I have $500 you know, you can always negotiate, but it’s a good question. Let’s say that it really depends by the type of brand. Okay, there are some brands that have like a specific budget in mind, and they maybe want to find a combination of 10 different influencers. And so they they propose Okay, potential pricing based on historical data, similar differences that they’re working with in the past and so on you know, but also on the other side that couldn’t be the influencers that while replying, you know, is like you know, usually you should ask them like, what is like you know, your your requested like, you know, pricing for these, these, these the type of deliverables and if they have already like in price price in mind, again, you can negotiate, so, it depends how big is the client? Was the leverage in the conversation, you know, I mean, like, if Nike asked you certainly thinks that you’re like maybe a smaller influencer, of course, Nike is going to leverage on you, you know, but if you’re like a smaller brand with being an influencer, the influencer is the one with a lot of requests, so they can have leverage that says, I want this price. If not, I’m not going to go you know, work with you.
Lara Schmoisman 17:51
I think there’s a message here that where you were saying that you need to approach the influencer as a person and get to know that person but also you can get them your brand story because I have a lot of clients that they have not that big and they still want to work on it with an influencer and it’s okay to tell them listen, this is what I do. This is what I have this is what I can get. This is what you can get from me we can collaborate maybe I maybe if this post works next post we can do more maybe there are a lot of values and beliefs that influencers might align with because it’s one hand health helps the other
Alessandro Bogliari 18:33
Absolutely. I mean, like again, you don’t be afraid to even try because again, you know, if it doesn’t work like okay, they will not reply to you by email by that state. At least you tried you know, the only thing that I want to say all the time is trying to get like you know, like a pricing that again doesn’t offend the influencer because I saw in the past especially maybe smaller businesses that didn’t really have like maybe an idea right? Of how to like you know really price an influencer and again either one really to find the other person in front of you because in that you know, if you give them like maybe a really lower price, you know, they might see like oh you don’t value my work on the other side do not pay just because like pay the right amount that you think you know it’s going to be
Lara Schmoisman 19:14
it has to be a return of investment. Sometimes your return on investment is shares of brand awareness. But you need to make sure that for you it works about offending I think that if that’s the only thing you can offer, it’s okay to offer it but you need to tell the story behind it. Yeah, and why not just put the number they are because that they are worried. You’re burning a bridge, never burn bridges. You never know where the life will take you.
Alessandro Bogliari 19:43
Oh, yeah. Especially with influencers?
Lara Schmoisman 19:45
Yeah, hey, Alessandra was so great to have it today in Coffee N.5 on today, people you got to choose sexy accents instead of one. So, thank you again for being here and give us all this information and everyone I will see you sometime this week or next week, who knows? All right. Talk to you later. Thank you for joining us. If you like the show, remember to leave a review. I will really appreciate it. If you want to know more about marketing and and myself follow me on Instagram. My handle is Lara Schmoisman. Was so good to have you here today. See you next time. Catch you on the flip side. Ciao ciao.