00:05
Lara Schmoisman
This is Coffee Number Five. I’m your host, Lara Schmoisman. Hi, everyone. Welcome back to Coffee Number Five. And, you know, we talk about brands and we talk about manufacturing, and we talk about everything that is beauty related, fashion related, PCG related. But everything starts at the beginning, and the beginning is about the conception of the brand and creating a brand. It has many moments. They have the moments that this is a product that I want to do. This is my unique ingredient or my unique factory or textile in, if you’re doing a fashion line. But again, everything needs to match your brand. So today I brought you an expert, someone that I deeply admire because I think she’s fabulous, what she does with branding. And I met her a few years ago, and finally I got here.

01:04
Lara Schmoisman
So thank you, Rebecca Bartlett, for being here today with us.

01:09
Rebecca Barlett
Thank you for having me.

01:10
Lara Schmoisman
I really love the work that you do for brands and also how versatile you are. And, you know, you work with, I know a lot of brands, experts, but you can see, oh, yeah, this is one more brand of that person, and they have a style. And the same happened with designers. You can say, yeah, this was done by a designer, but I seen your work and I seen how you can really go deep and understand the DNA of the personality of your founders and then you bring it into the brand too. Because I know some of your clients and I can say, oh, yeah, this matches their personality, which is great. So before I let you talk, because I’ve been talking a lot. So tell me, how did you get into branding and how did you get to who you are today?

02:06
Rebecca Barlett
Yeah, sure. So I started as a designer. I’m from the New York area. I moved to New York City to work in branding and design. Worked for an agency there, and then moved to San Francisco about 20 years ago, fell in love with a guy, and really, truly kind of moved from design to branding. When I was the first senior creative person at a little startup in Bare Essentials that had been around for 35 years at Bare Essentials, Bare Minerals Future. And that was really like, where branding clicked for me. At the time, Leslie Blodgett was in charge, and I had the keys to basically create and roll out a brand, starting small and then eventually taking them global.

02:59
Rebecca Barlett
After Bear, I wanted to go back to the agency side and wanted that to be my focus and actually really took my experience from that to help founders develop and launch their brands. That’s mostly what Bartlett Brands is known for, basically partnering with founders with big ideas to bring them to life.

03:22
Lara Schmoisman
Yeah, that’s Amazing. And it’s not an easy task to bring a brand to life because we have pre established ideas of what we have with our brand many times. But is that the right thing to do for a target audience? Is that the right thing to do for a competitive market? Those are all things that you need to have and keep in consideration when you are doing your own brand.

03:52
Rebecca Barlett
Yeah, our brand, our process is very strategy driven. So while you might look at our website and see beautiful packaging and great storytelling and all of that, it’s really rooted in the part that you cannot see before all of that happened, which is developing the strategic insights to power the brand. Our work always starts with like a pretty deep work in consumer psychographics, mindset. So two different types of client profiles that come in. Some of them are innovation brands where the founder comes, they have a big idea, they’ve managed to raise some money to fund the R and D of this idea. Might be a product idea, a new packaging development. We do a lot of work in sustainability. So they have this thing and they come to us and they’re like, how do I bring this to life?

04:44
Rebecca Barlett
Like who is interested in this? What do we need to do to bring down the barriers if there’s like a behavioral change? And so we’re really helping them find like okay, who is going to be the consumer for this? How do they think, what do they like, how do you really connect with them? And then we’re building a brand around that. The other profile we get is like a founder who has maybe had a proof of concept in market with their product or idea and then they’re probably doing branding for the first time. But they have something, you know, whether or not they acquired the consumer that they thought they would like, they do have a base consumer. So then we’re tapping into, you know, that consumer to really understand them. We’re looking at the brand to see what’s working, what is.

05:31
Rebecca Barlett
Like this is what’s always so interesting about like this part of it is that the company, the team will be like, all of these things are so important to us. And then we talk to the consumer and they like don’t even notice it. So like I was just telling you before this started about this supplements brand that we work on and like their team is so rigorous about the R and D and the science. Very head led. The founder went to Yale. Like this woman is brilliant and their consumer does not care about science at all. Literally. It’s like gray noise just. And so you know, it’s like one of those things. There’s the tension. You want to talk about your R and D and your science and the consumer just does not care.

06:18
Rebecca Barlett
So, you know, we are again, like finding like what matters to them. How do we amplify that and be super focused on that? I think a pitfall for branding is often that there’s a lot of stories to tell. If you tell a lot of stories, if you think about what the consumer experiences of a brand, it’s not like one singular focus touch point. It’s. It’s like many touch points. And if you say something different across all of those touch points and you appear as a different brand, you don’t register. There’s no, like, retention.

06:51
Lara Schmoisman
Yeah. That’s what I call a cohesive narrative.

06:55
Rebecca Barlett
Yes.

06:56
Lara Schmoisman
Each one of the dialects of each one of the platforms that you are communicating in.

07:03
Rebecca Barlett
Yes, exactly. Right. You have to nuance it for the platform. But at the same time, you can’t just like have a new brand book for that platform alone.

07:12
Lara Schmoisman
Absolutely. People need to see the messaging cohesive. That’s brand awareness that they see. Your email, your social media, everything, your text messages has the same brand voice. And one of the things that were discussing also earlier today was that how brands, many times they are switching the narrative and their brand voice, and that’s where they get lost over time. To me, when I get normally a brand book, if I don’t create a brand book, I say, okay, this is a brand book that it was given to me and this is what I need to see. Stick to it. Otherwise you need a rebranding.

07:52
Rebecca Barlett
How like it you’re. I feel like you are probably often given the unfortunate task of needing to put lipstick on a pig when branding isn’t strong. They’re looking to you to fix something.

08:09
Lara Schmoisman
And there are a lot of things that I can fix, a lot of things I can tweak. And many times it’s just that they’re going after the wrong target audience or it’s just switching budgets or where they need to put their money, where their people are, or refining things. But many times you can see founders say, oh, look at this. Brand is doing this so well. Why wouldn’t do more like them? Because you’re not them. You don’t have their story, you don’t have their budget, you don’t have. You’re not them. You need to create your own story.

08:41
Rebecca Barlett
Yeah, yeah, no, I think, and like I was just saying that, you know, creating this deep connection with the consumer and truly understanding who you are talking to who that core is. Even if there are other people in the audience that aren’t exactly the same as that core target, you’re always talking to the core and that messaging would resonate with that broader audience. Another example, kind of similar to this, when we branded Paula’s Choice prior to their acquisition, were doing like psychographic research on their core consumer. So the brand had been around for a very long time and you know, the branding was like a mess. Like it was a cult brand where like you had to sort of like be in the know to know because it looked like a hot mess.

09:32
Rebecca Barlett
But what we found is like their core consumer really resonated with Paula Bagan, the naysayer of the beauty industry. And they essentially their profile mirrored hers. Like their fact checkers, they’re practical people. They’re like the people who, when we ask them, we’re like, who plans the vacation? They’re like, I do. Well, what do you do if you don’t plan the vacation? I don’t go. You know, like they are reading scientific research papers about product ingredients. So they totally mirror her. And we’re like, okay, so that is the core consumer. You point the brand towards them, you talk to them. You are aware of everyone in the audience. And not everyone is going to consume the level of detail that they are, which is where we talk about how you nuance that tone depending on the touch point.

10:30
Rebecca Barlett
Being aware that there are skimmers in there. But the brand really is focused on like celebrating these super head led, fact checking, practical people, you know, that do the work.

10:42
Lara Schmoisman
Yeah. But also one of the things we need to understand is that you can have all these scientific information, you can be very knowledgeable as a brand. Doesn’t mean that your target audience will be using that language. So you need to communicate things to them in a way that they can understand it.

11:03
Rebecca Barlett
Yeah, that’s where. Yes. Yeah.

11:06
Lara Schmoisman
And I seen lately, I don’t know if you’ve seen these trends. Packaging with too much information.

11:13
Rebecca Barlett
Yeah.

11:14
Lara Schmoisman
It’s overwhelming for the consumer to try to understand everything.

11:20
Rebecca Barlett
Yeah. I mean from the packaging strategy. Sort of based on this insight that like, you know, Paula, she’s this guide, it’s wayfinding, she’s trustworthy and that like she’s just going to tell it to you straight, you know, the packaging. So again, which has to be appealing to the broader audience of skimmers, people who don’t actually care about the research. You know, it’s just like very to the point. What Is it? What does it do? How does it do it? The end.

11:48
Lara Schmoisman
Exactly. You know, to me, packaging it was simply simple and sexy. Yeah, but I mean, sexy is not for everyone. What is sexy for one person might not be sexy for another person. You need to know what make big.

12:04
Rebecca Barlett
Yeah, yeah. Paula’s choice is not sexy. Their consumer doesn’t care about that.

12:09
Lara Schmoisman
No, that’s true.

12:11
Rebecca Barlett
Yeah.

12:11
Lara Schmoisman
But I mean they appeal them in some way. To them the information is there. And also they do a really good job communicating the performance of the product. I think people are really moving into performance right now.

12:29
Rebecca Barlett
Yeah, we’re in a head led era. I honestly, I have been around for so long, I, I expect that we will swing back to a heart led era. I like, I feel like I’ve already seen this happen in the 20 years that I’ve been in this industry where it’s like the, we’re so saturated with head LED brands and like everyone’s just trying to prove their point, like say it stronger and say it’s stronger than the next one. Where again you reach like maximum saturation and then you’re like, I want to feel something again. And we sort of see that like as culture changes and evolves, like post pandemic, people did kind of go back to wanting to feel know. And so we do see this kind of like emergent of brands that are much more heart led.

13:21
Rebecca Barlett
You know, of course, like we all still want to believe that we’re not wasting our money on things that are, you know, won’t do anything for us. But you know, like a brand that I’m thinking about right now that we worked on and we’ve been with since the beginning is Playground Sexual Wellness, whose founder, I think was on your show.

13:40
Lara Schmoisman
Yes, she was.

13:42
Rebecca Barlett
Yeah. Where it’s like, you know, like lube, not a very interesting category. Like by bringing in this like fun, the joy, the excitement, like this cute factor, it feels like, you know, it’s made for you know, bringing in that kind of.

13:58
Lara Schmoisman
I don’t think it’s not exciting. I think it’s one of those categories that is. We don’t talk about.

14:05
Rebecca Barlett
Yeah, yeah.

14:06
Lara Schmoisman
And we need to open the conversation. I think that you did an exceptional job or make it friendly. Something that is an uncomfortable conversation. You made it friendly, you made it playful.

14:20
Rebecca Barlett
Yeah. With Playground, were like, okay, let’s look, let’s start, you know, again, starting with like, who is the target of this? Like, who is this really for? You know, it’s for a woman who’s 35 and up, probably was raised with you know, more conventional values than like Gen Alpha, you know, and like they might not even though they want to be comfortable, like they might not be. And so we actually, we. The sort of like guiding North Star for design and language was called Dirty Mind, where it’s like, it’s basically not sexual unless you have a dirty enough mind to see the sex in it.

15:03
Rebecca Barlett
And like that was our North Star for, you know, the way the products are named, the way the copy is written, which is cheeky and fun, where it’s like you could read it at sort of its base level and you’d be like, you know, I think it’s about, you know, going and getting a milkshake and you’re like, well actually if you have a dirty enough mind, you can see that we’re talking about sex.

15:25
Lara Schmoisman
Yes, I love that. Yeah, I love that.

15:28
Rebecca Barlett
That’s the North Star.

15:30
Lara Schmoisman
I’ve been listening to this conversation lately that there are a lot of retails that they making comments on packaging or asking for packaging changes. What’s your experience with that?

15:44
Rebecca Barlett
Oh, I mean, yes, we hear it. I mean, and Playground is actually a perfect example because we’ve heard both ends of the spectrum, you know, they’re too premium and subtle for Target, but like not premium enough for Erewhon. So, you know, I think it’s like taking it with a grain of salt, you know, being open minded but not throwing the baby out with the bathwater. A lot of our brands are in Sephora or are Sephora headed. And because I’m in San Francisco and Sephora’s in San Francisco and we have connections there, you know, I feel like we’re always like swimming in the same pool as Sephora and you know, Sephora will tell you what they would like to see. You know, it comes from.

16:31
Lara Schmoisman
And how do you deal with that? I mean, if they tell you, I would like to see this, but your packaging and you have a high moq of packagings.

16:41
Rebecca Barlett
I mean, like I said, I think it’s like you take it with a grain of salt. Merchants don’t know everything. They know their channel. But you have to look at it through a brand lens and through your other channels and what would be strategically the right move. I’ve heard feedback come from merchants that was like so irresponsible. Like we have not a brand that we worked on, but just some founders from the Bay Area that I know well were told by some merchants that like, oh, your brand, like you should be targeting 12 year olds and like Their product is not appropriate for 12 year olds. And you’re just like, you’re gonna have to throw that one away. You know, maybe like take what you’re hearing. Consumer is younger. A younger consumer might be into this, but like, again, and you have also.

17:36
Lara Schmoisman
You need to make tough decisions. Maybe that’s not the right place for your brand. If you feel that’s right.

17:41
Rebecca Barlett
That’s right.

17:42
Lara Schmoisman
Get diluted there.

17:44
Rebecca Barlett
Yeah. I think that like, you know, one of the important things about doing branding and having it articulated, like it’s the bible that you’re gonna live by is that, you know, you’re less subject to being swayed in the wind. And we’ve all known, you know, brands and founders that like, when the wind blows this way, they go that way and the wind blend blows that way, they go that way too. And like, it really dilutes the brand and it makes a mess.

18:12
Lara Schmoisman
Well, and that’s what I call that. Then you don’t have a brand. You have a collection.

18:16
Rebecca Barlett
You don’t have a brand. No.

18:17
Lara Schmoisman
You have a collection of products.

18:18
Rebecca Barlett
Yes, you have collections.

18:20
Lara Schmoisman
Your products you sell and it changes wherever you are.

18:23
Rebecca Barlett
Yeah. And one thing that’s interesting about working with founders, there is like, it’s an art and a science. I love working with founders. It is like, for me, we’re a better fit with founders than with big corporate because I feel like we have learned the art of getting them to see themselves in the brand and feel like they have had such a say in it that we’ve really brought their vision to life. It’s, it’s a little bit of magic. Founders cannot be pushed to roll out a brand that sort of like gets smacked on them, if that makes sense. Like they have to be deeply connected to it because they live and breathe it and they can’t live and breathe something that is not authentic to them.

19:19
Lara Schmoisman
That’s so interesting you’re saying that because I was talking to one of my clients that we’re doing rebranding for her and she will say, this brand is you. It’s part of you. So, yeah, not connected to the brand. It’s not going to work.

19:36
Rebecca Barlett
It’s not going to work. And sometimes the connection can be very abstract. So like I was telling you about our client, first day supplements, I think, before we started this recording. But how the founder, like, she’s absolutely brilliant. She is, you know, a Yale graduate. She’s very focused on science and R and Doing right and their Customer doesn’t care about R and D or science at all. You know, I think that if she were a brand, she would be a completely different brand than the brand that she created, which is achieved a lot of success. The way that we wove her into her brand story, that really feels like she’s very connected to the mission is that actually through this idea of, like, health being passed down through, like, through generations. She’s Chinese.

20:32
Rebecca Barlett
Her parents and grandparents were part of the great Chinese famine, you know, and so she saw, like, what. What poor nutrition can do on a generational level. And so were really able to take that part of her story. We’re like, oh, that’s so relevant. What your customer cares about more than anything is having their next generation be healthier. So, like, we can make that.

20:58
Lara Schmoisman
I love that the connection in the.

21:00
Rebecca Barlett
Brand is not about science and R and D, because, again, they don’t care what they do care. They want their kids to grow up and be smart and be successful and be healthy, and they’re motivated and inspired by the idea that they have the control truly to, like, influence the health and wellness of their children.

21:20
Lara Schmoisman
So let me ask you a question. People get to work with you. They come to say, I need a brand. I’m creating a brand. I have these ideas for me, my brand. And you come in. What is. Where do you take a client and where do you get your data to justify your choices?

21:42
Rebecca Barlett
Yeah. So good question. I would say that a lot of. A lot of our clients that are a good fit with us, they generally come with their idea, their product, their asset, whatever it is, to power the business, and come sort of prepared to go on the branding journey where the future is unseen. I think they have very specific ideas, but, you know, we. We sort of, like, take them through this journey where, like, I think on day one, where we kind of have them be like, let’s. Let’s not try to picture launch day yet because, like, what we might create might be not the thing that you ever imagined.

22:27
Lara Schmoisman
Let’s proprietary, and let’s put it out there right now that branding is just not a nice logo or it’s.

22:36
Rebecca Barlett
Oh, no. Yeah, yeah. And like I said, so we’re always rooted in these strategic insights. We do proprietary consumer research pretty much for all of our clients in some degree. Some of them ones that have had some, like, proof of concept may come. They may bring something to the table, but we are doing proprietary research pretty much for every brand that we work on developing the insights to power the brand. And then executing on those insights across storytelling, design assets, web design, like the whole package. And we’re usually bringing our brands. And these are like long projects, Laura. Like they go on for innovation brands. Sometimes it’s two to three years to launch for like a regular brand that’s a little more straightforward. It’s at least a year. I tell them when we’re dating, you know, it’s kind of like, are you.

23:29
Rebecca Barlett
When we’re going to like decide are we going to go on this journey together? We have to make sure we like each other. First of all, be prepared. You’re going to see me and my team like every week for the next like 52 to 80 weeks. And they’re like, how could that be possible? It’s like, well, it is. Yeah.

23:46
Lara Schmoisman
Yeah. No, it takes a lot of work to do a branding. Right. And it takes a lot of effort and a lot of people involved. It’s just not one man show. It takes a lot of research.

24:00
Rebecca Barlett
Yeah. And I think, you know, in the brand building part of this, like I was saying, like you, I think companies and clients, you know, on day one, when it may be a founder and a core team, five people, like having this north star, which is essentially a deck, you know, of strategic insights, core fundamentals of the brand, and then outward facing parts of the brand, like the language, visuals that, you know, they walk away with this deck for reference to roll everything out. It’s also important for bigger brands where it’s like, you know, you see over time these brands, they get to 20 people and it’s like if you ask everyone at the company what the brand is, they’ll tell you it’s something different.

24:46
Lara Schmoisman
Well, something talking in the past and in the podcast and I used to bring. One of my first jobs in the US was to bring international movies to the States and Canada. So we had to create all the art direction. We had to create not only subtitles, many chapter selection, what was the diamonds of the dvd. We have to create all these fun things, but it’s so important to translate. Right. That information and the artwork of the movie, because you need to translate it so it’s appealing to the culture. But you cannot have a different brand. And it’s something that I’m seeing now a lot like in marketplaces like Amazon, that we have to create listings and different listings for each territory. But at the same time, you need to be true to your brand.

25:39
Rebecca Barlett
Mm, mm. Yeah, that’s right. Yeah. Like making sure that everyone in an organization deeply understands the brand. And then, you know, has the wherewithal to translate it to their market or to their touch point is super important.

25:56
Lara Schmoisman
And that your values, your values are still the same in the United States and in UK and Germany.

26:04
Rebecca Barlett
Right, right.

26:05
Lara Schmoisman
But at the same time, you’re appealing and also you cannot use many times taglines. You can also not use the same tagline in another language. It doesn’t work.

26:14
Rebecca Barlett
Right, right.

26:15
Lara Schmoisman
Yeah, it just doesn’t make sense. So how do you deal with creating brands and make sure that it will work in expansion with other territories?

26:28
Rebecca Barlett
Yeah, I mean, usually when the brands that we create end up being global, it is like. So for example, when we rolled out Paula’s Choice. Yeah, I mean, at some point, like you don’t involve every region in the entire process, but once you get to where you have a brand, like we did a lot of meetings where like presenting the brand, fielding questions, and then they did go away and translate it to their different regions. And then actually were hired like two years later. We’ve worked with them twice now, first for the original branding and then later it’s like it had rolled out, came back and they wanted to sort of work on tightening up the language. So we created an editorial style guide and all of that.

27:19
Rebecca Barlett
And it was essentially because they took it, they learned, they found this is what’s difficult in translating and communicating this globally. And then they were sort of part of the second round of tightening up the language and then creating like a pretty robust editorial style guide. We did it obviously in English, but then like each region could really translate that for their own needs. I think truly in the end it was like, you know, landing some of these nuances of the brand that everyone could really understand and then again, take it. So it made sense in that region.

27:58
Lara Schmoisman
That’s all. I have one more question for you before we go. Because a lot of brands, they start with two, three skills and then they need to involve, evolve on that and they grow in the amount of skills that they have. I’m always a believer that we need to create a design that it will work for all ours, of course, with different modifications, but everything needs to be in the family of you cannot something completely going off brands. So how do you deal with that unknown of what will be the next skill? Because you don’t know if it’s going to be a tube or a pump or you don’t know what’s a format because it depends on so many other factors.

28:47
Rebecca Barlett
Yeah, yeah. We usually, when we do the launch Assortment. We usually create hypothetical future SKUs. You know, we’re not going to roll them through production, but in our, like, conceptual design, just to make sure that like the color system, the navigation can really work for, like, you’re going to take this and then you’re going to create something that’s like this or you’re going to create something like this. And we would have like a roadmap for when you create that. And that way it’s like in the future when you do create something, we do have this point of reference of like, this is how this design system and communication system flexes for a new collection or just like a SKU extension or new variants. So we do actually, we create these hypotheticals for every brand that we work on for package design.

29:40
Rebecca Barlett
We create them upfront. Then of course, things do change. In the example of first day of the supplements brand when they launched and for the first several years it was supposed to be for kids only. And then the second time they came back to the studio, they’re like, we’re pivoting to the whole family, which is like a pretty significant shift in terms of package design and certainly of communication. So, you know, changes do happen. You just, you try to get ahead of as many of them as you can. If your business changes. Yeah, see you again if your business doesn’t change. And you know, you do have this sort of roadmap for how to roll out.

30:22
Lara Schmoisman
And one more question, I promise. How often do you think that the brand needs to revise their rebranding?

30:31
Rebecca Barlett
I mean, we always say we hope to not see you ever again. I think the times that we launch a brand and then do like a brand refresh is truly more around growing and learning, probably less of like, this was the wrong brand.

30:56
Lara Schmoisman
So, yeah, sometimes styles get a little old or that they need.

31:04
Rebecca Barlett
Right, right. Well, I mean, we always say, like, we’re building the brand to stand the test of time. The core fundamentals of the brand are based in timeless truths. So the look and feel, the language, like those things might evolve or a brand might need to pivot, you know, and so we would see a client again under those circumstances. But ideally, like, there are enough core fundamentals in there that like, there are things you can hold on to carry into the next chapter. You know, like, again, these are brands not built, they’re not pro. It’s not products. It is a brand which is like this higher order of messaging based in, you know, what, like, what is the purpose of all of this, what is the core DNA, you know, and those things rarely change.

31:54
Lara Schmoisman
Let’s talk about the case of clinic, for example. Oh, yeah, Clinique is a classic. That.

32:00
Rebecca Barlett
Clinique is a classic.

32:01
Lara Schmoisman
When it came to market, it was, wow, the 1, 2, 3 steps. They make us so easy for us. I was a teenager at the time and it was amazing. But today it goes. Didn’t catch up with the new generations.

32:16
Rebecca Barlett
They didn’t. I know, it’s. That is one where like, oof, this is tough for them, you know, this multi generational factor is also tough, you know, so one the things that are in their core DNA, you know, the dermatologist backing and safe, all of that, like, it’s totally table stakes now. So that’s challenging. And then the other thing is like this idea of being a multi generational brand where you can like appeal to mom with her. I think that, I think that teenagers.

32:51
Lara Schmoisman
Technology is too advanced today and there are too many players to try to appeal to everyone.

32:57
Rebecca Barlett
Yeah, yeah. I mean, here’s my hot take. I don’t think in this day and age now, really, in like the last five years, as we see that like teens are in on this, they can shop for their own things. They do not want their mom’s brand. If I were Clinique, I would pick Elaine. If you want to be for moms, you go after it. You go after it hard with the R D and like, you stop trying so hard to appeal to like the youth and just deliver, you know, grow your market for that person or go the other way. Although I do think going the other way just because it’s such an old brand, I don’t know, I think that would be a lot more work. Yeah, it’s an interesting and complex problem.

33:45
Rebecca Barlett
I mean, thinking about bare essentials, bare minerals, talk about brands that haven’t caught up with the times. Like they didn’t evolve fast enough. And I don’t even like, did they even exist anymore? I don’t even know.

33:56
Lara Schmoisman
That’s a good question.

33:57
Rebecca Barlett
You know, something that was like a unicorn in the early 2000s is literally gone.

34:02
Lara Schmoisman
Yeah. And that the intensive times.

34:05
Rebecca Barlett
Yeah.

34:06
Lara Schmoisman
Okay, well, thank you so much for being here today. This was lovely and I hope that you guys out there, they were able to get good insights.

34:15
Rebecca Barlett
Yeah.

34:15
Lara Schmoisman
Thanks for being here and to you. I will see you next week with more coffee. Number five. Find everything you need at larashmoisman.com or in the episode notes right below. Don’t forget to subscribe. Was so good to have you here today. See you next time. Catch you on the flip side. Ciao. Ciao.