Coffee N5 - Alexandra Carter

Episode 107 – Coffee N5 – Know What You’re Worth and Negotiate for It with Alexandra Carter

Lara Schmoisman sits down with Columbia Law School professor and best-selling author Alexandra Carter to discuss how she became a master negotiator and how you can use her negotiation skills and wisdom to get what you need out of every conflict.

What you’ll learn:

  • Alexandra shares why negotiation in business isn’t just “arguing about money” (and what it REALLY means to her)
  • Alexandra illuminates how you can determine what you need out of a conflict — and make sure you receive it
  • Alexandra and Lara discuss a time when a client couldn’t afford Alexandra’s rates — and how she still provided value while staying true to her own worth

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Lara Schmoisman  0:04  

Hi, and welcome back to coffee number five. Today I was thinking about when I was

a little girl. And I was in preschool, I have this really vivid memory about talk, I don’t remember the person, but I do remember that she told me you don’t like paying, you’re not my friend anymore. And I was shocked. And I didn’t understand why our relationship had to change because I didn’t like being come with settle, like maybe we have other colors in common. But it was black or white, pink was my favorite color. So I wasn’t a friend anymore. And lately, 

I’ve been thinking about negotiation, and renegotiation of everything we do in life. And this is a word that I lately only hear when we talk about money. But negotiation goes so much more beyond money is negotiation my own time and negotiating with me with myself all the time. What do I do with? Do I do this? Or do I do that? Do I go on? I spend time with my kids or I go that probably they don’t want to spend time with me. But do I try to go spend time with my kids? Or I go to the market? And I’m negotiating with myself. So today, I was so fascinated about this subject. And then I met someone incredible, who actually study and teaches this subject. So welcome. Alexandra Carter. Oh, Professor Carter.


Alexandra Carter  1:50  

Thank you so much. Lera. Call me Alex. Please. Oh, Alex.


Lara Schmoisman  1:53  

Well, thank you so much for having coffee with me. So please tell us I want to know, I mean, you have an incredible trajectory, you teach a colleague at Columbia University, and all about negotiation. So and we were talking a little bit before recording the podcast, and we’re so aligned in what we believe about negotiation. And and tell me how did you come up with what how did you end up teaching negotiation?


Alexandra Carter  2:24  

Okay, great. So first of all, people look at my resume, they look at my CV, my career trajectory. And they assume two things. They assume first of all, that I was born, you know, I came out of the womb, ready to negotiate and claim my worth in every situation. And they also assume that I had a very orderly and planned trajectory that I planned from the time I was little to end up as a professor of negotiation and mediation, and as an author, and neither of those things is true. So first of all, when I was younger, I actually felt really uncomfortable negotiating for myself, in any circumstance, standing up for my own boundaries, telling people what I needed. I was great for other people. Lera. So if my friend or family member needed anything, if a colleague needed anything, I was I was like, the junkyard dog, I was going to help them get it and I would not rest until they had what they needed. But when it came to me, I often hesitated because I thought, I’m really a collaborative person. I value relationships. They mean a lot to me, it’s important to me. And I thought that negotiation was this thing that was basically arguing over money. And then I had a couple of moments that changed everything. They reframed the way I thought about negotiation, and they set me on a path to where I am today. So the first moment was during law school, I went to law school, in part because my dad was a lawyer, and I didn’t frankly know what else to do. So I said, Okay, well, I’ll do this and figure it out. And it wasn’t until my last year of law school that a friend of mine said, you know, Alex, I just took this course. It’s about helping other people negotiate. And it involves a lot of talking. So I think you’d be great at. And even though she was shading me a bit, I did take the course. And when I tell you sitting down in front of a couple people who were in conflict, and helping them negotiate it and work it out, it felt like the angels were calling down to me saying this is it, Alex, this is what you should be doing for the rest of your life. I just found it by taking a chance. That is the course that I now teach today at Columbia. And it all started right with just a friend who knows me saying, Hey, I think you’d be good at this. You So it’s incredibly random sometimes how we can end up in these places,


Lara Schmoisman  5:04  

I think we come up, both come out from a very similar space. My two parents are lawyers and my brother. So I, my life was surrounded about conflict and, and negotiation and resolution or non resolution. And I think that that’s what I was seeing an understanding from a very early age that if there is a problem, there has to be a resolution. But there is different ways to approach the proud. Yes,


Alexandra Carter  5:37  

that’s absolutely right. And for me, initially, even after I was trained in negotiation, I thought to myself, well, I can’t do this for myself, or it’s going to be selfish. It’s selfish. If I stand up for myself, it’s selfish. If I ask people for what I need, until the moment Lera, that this was the first time I was ever negotiating for myself at work. And it was over money. But it taught me a lesson that was so powerful beyond money. So I got an offer. And I was considering not negotiating. And then a senior woman gave me some advice. And she said, Alex, you have to go back in there and ask for more. And here’s why. Because when you teach someone how to value you, you’re teaching him how to value all of us, meaning all women. And so if you’re not gonna go in there, and do it for yourself, I want you to do it for the woman who’s coming after you do it for the sisterhood. And this was the moment that I realized, you know, negotiating for myself. And I want to talk in a minute about what negotiation means, because I think about it totally differently than most other professors. And you and I are going to line up on this. But when you stand up for your needs, you’re allowing other people to see the fullest best version of you. If you’ve been in a relationship where you weren’t telling the other person what you needed, and then your needs weren’t being met. How do you show up in that relationship? You’re also i


Lara Schmoisman  7:12  

i in Spanish, we have a saying that you don’t blame only the big for being a be your you blame them, who feeds them and making a mess? We cannot blame the paid for making a mess. He’s a big, but if we fit them in the wrong place and makes a mess. It’s the fault of who fits them.


Alexandra Carter  7:32  

Yes, that’s right. And so part of it, it starts with us, right? There’s some things we can’t control. But there’s some things we are and one of that is expressing our needs to other people.


 Lara Schmoisman  7:44  

Yeah, absolutely. So let’s talk what negotiation means.



Alexandra Carter  7:48  

Yes. Okay. So when I was first studying this, what I was taught is similar to what you may have heard, right, so for those of you listening to this podcast, you may have heard that negotiation is about money. It’s a back and forth between two people, maybe haggling over salary. So it’s something I do once a year when I go into my boss and say, Hey, I’m Alex Carter, I published a book this year, I won an award. I’d like you to raise my salary, right? This is actually not what it is. And I remember when somebody taught me that definition, and I felt like wow, that’s so reactive and limiting, right? Like, if you’re in corporate, that means you negotiate once a year. And if you’re an entrepreneur, that means you don’t negotiate at all. But then Lera, I went on my honeymoon, and my honeymoon is actually where I learned what negotiation really is. And not just because I’ve married another lawyer, although that made things certainly very interesting. It’s because I want you to picture this. I’m in Hawaii, I’m in a kayak with my husband, we’re on a tour. And our guide, looks back at us and says, Alright, guys, let’s negotiate these things to the left, because we’re headed for that beach up ahead. And that was the moment that something clicked in my brain. And I thought, That’s right. There is another way to use that word negotiate. When I negotiate my kayak toward the beach, what am I doing? I’m steering. And so in that moment, I thought to myself, What if I redefined negotiation? It’s not just about money. It’s not just about haggling over a contract. It’s simply steering my relationships. 


Lara Schmoisman  9:34  

Yeah, it’s all about the relationships. Like I was telling you about my my experience with the color pink and my friend.


Alexandra Carter  9:45  

Right and, and that could be right it could be that it was literally over the color pink. It could also be that that little kid saying you don’t like pink, was her trying to articulate something else that she did. didn’t have language to say at that moment, which is, I wonder if you and I are too different? You know, I wonder, you know how it is that somebody can be my friend, if they don’t like all of the things that I’d like, right? That’s negotiation, it’s trying to steer your own boat? Where am I going? Who am I? What do I want to be? Which beach do I want to be on? And other people steering to? That’s all it is. And so if you can have a conversation, congratulations, you’re negotiating. If you’re somebody who’s really good at generating trust with people, and you’re good at relationships, congratulations, you’re good at negotiating. So I really am on this mission to redefine how people think about it. And just instead of thinking about a fight, picture yourself getting in a kayak and saying, which beach do I want to go to? And how am I going to steer to get there? That’s it?


Lara Schmoisman  10:56  

What is the point then there is no more negotiation? What far? Can you take it? Because I mean, let’s talk when there is no negotiation, and you cannot finish? It’s because there’s a conflict. We’re end up the negotiation ends and the conflict brigades.


Alexandra Carter  11:14  

Okay. All right. Well, first of all, conflict doesn’t come at the end. conflict comes at the beginning, okay. And you said something, actually, before we started filming that I want to highlight for people listening, negotiation doesn’t start from the moment that you and I sit down together, Lera, and start talking, whether we’re talking about money, or we’re talking about the color pink, or we’re talking about where we’re going to take our business together, it starts at home with you first. The book that I wrote, asked for more has a whole half of the book, the first half of the book is called the mirror. And why is it called the mirror? It’s because the most important negotiation you’re ever going to have is the one with yourself. And it’s about you sitting down to actually ask yourself some questions and saying, What do I need from this? What am I feeling about this negotiation? How have I handled something like this successfully before, it starts with you getting really grounded in who you are tuning out the noise, and tuning into what it is that you really need, want, think and feel. And when you do that Lara? When you spend time in the mirror? First, you’re going to be in a much better position to know, later on, do we end this negotiation or not? Because if for example, I’ve spent time asking myself, What do I need, and making a list of everything that I need from this particular relationship, business or personal. And then I sit down with a potential client, I’m also an entrepreneur, like your audience, I am a full time law professor. And I’m also a full time consultant, keynote speaker and author. And so I’m out there negotiating with clients, just like all of you. And so let’s say I sit down with that client, and they start talking about things. And I’m realizing this doesn’t line up with what I know I need, then that’s a chance for me to openly express to them. I’ll give you an example. Okay, I was approached by somebody for a keynote speaking opportunity. This was a client Lera at all of your entrepreneurs will relate, you know, that one client you’ve really wanted for a long time, the one where you feel like if you get in, it’s just going to transform your business. This was that client. The problem was, their budget was about a third of what I needed. Okay? And so I basically said, Hey, so I totally respect your budget. Here’s what I need, tell me your constraints. And they said, We can’t meet that. And I said, Okay, instead of undercutting myself, I simply said, I totally respect where you are. Let me help you give some tips so that maybe you can negotiate for a better budget, right? Because you deserve a better budget to support your people. Let me give you some tips to negotiate that and let’s stay in touch. I feel confident that one day we’re going to work together. And so I didn’t undersell, I was cordial. We were friendly. And every so often I would check in with them and say, Hey, I just did this podcast that you might be interested to hear or I’ve got something new coming up. And one day they wrote to me and said, Guess what? We negotiated for the budget? Come on in, right. So sometimes you think it’s over, but it may not be right. So the key is the mirror first. You want to get grounded in yourself, and then that’s going to help you make decisions, whatever the other person has to say when they come to the table. Oh,


Lara Schmoisman  14:55  

absolutely. I have a lot of people who come to the agency. I I always leave the meetings with them having information where they’re standing. And not because I want to them to show them all how wrong is what you have? No, you need to get clarity on where you standing, then if we don’t have not agree the relationship is open for them to always come back because you were transparent to them. Yes. Yeah. And I, I truly, truly believe on that there have been a lot of people. And this is something that I mentioned, a lot of a lot of times in this podcast is about information is power. It is not our people is only power, if you know what to do with


Alexandra Carter  15:41  

information. I’m clapping here in the background, because people always ask me, Alex, how can you tell who the expert negotiators are? And I think they think Lera that I’m going to say it’s who comes in the toughest, who’s the biggest presence in the room, and you can’t see, but I’m like, five, one and three quarters, I am very small, actually, as a as a physical person, I’m never the biggest person in any room. And that’s not how you are the best negotiator. The best negotiator has the most knowledge, they know themselves really well, really well. And then they get to know somebody else, they get to know the situation. And that information is your seat of power. That’s what helps you stand in your confidence. And also be able to know, does this work for me or not? Yeah. And there is


Lara Schmoisman  16:35  

another part of negotiation that people don’t they underestimate that for me, it’s really important that I think that we have recently talked about that, and I’m going to be doing Facebook Live very soon about the nonverbal communication. How important is that when you’re negotiating, like, for example, in negotiation, I always try never to do it by email, because you lose that nonverbal communication, that is hearing and feeling the other person.


Alexandra Carter  17:11  

Yeah, it’s, it’s real, you know, choosing the right mode for your communication, I would just say, both as a business person, and somebody who has a tween child, don’t negotiate over text, text is really it’s, you will, you will have a blow up. If you negotiate by text, I almost never do that. For email, it depends. I have had a few clients. So in my business, I do a lot of keynote speaking training for different groups, I sometimes will coach an individual, and where I have somebody who is really nervous, right, they’re really worried about how they’re going to come across on, you know, video chat, I might advise them to write some things down by email, because it gives them a little bit more control over what they have to say. And then it gives the other person space to respond. So there are ways tactically that you can use email. But I am a huge fan of getting on video, when you can see somebody, you can observe a lot about their body language, and also their voice Lera most of emotion is actually not carried in the body that you can really observe. It’s carried in the voice. Yeah. And so the first thing I would tell people is, whether you are on video, or whether you’re over the phone, pay very close attention to the voice, because the voice will tell you a lot about how that other person is thinking and feeling and receiving information. But also for me over video, I can see what’s in their background. Those of you watching this right now, you can see in my background, different things that might give you a clue as to who I am, what I value, you know, the things that make me me, and the same would be true for you, Laura. And it’s amazing how often over video, I can see something in the background that just breaks a conflict wide open. I was in a negotiation with a woman who I think had low trust and and she wasn’t sure whether she could trust me. And a few minutes into the conversation. I said, I can’t help but notice, you have these balloons in the background. They’re so sweet. What are the balloons and she said, Oh, that’s my grandson. We just had his birthday party. And we started talking a bit about her grandson and all of a sudden, she relaxed, she opened up we opened up a line of communication and the rest of our negotiation went beautifully. So there are so many ways to read Psalm one. I often find for body language, I’ll give your listeners one tip you want to look for We’re situations where the body language and the words don’t match up. Okay? So if, for example, you give a proposal to somebody, and they’re like, Yeah, I think that could work. For those of you who are watching me, I’m literally shaking my head. No, while my words are telling you, yes. You can’t imagine how often that comes up. And so pay attention to the fullness of what somebody’s doing their face, their head, and where it may not line up with the words. They’re saying, you know, so if somebody says to you, yeah, I think that would work. Okay. I might say something to them. Like, you know, Larry, your words are telling me this is fine. What your face is telling me, you might have a concern. And I would love to answer any questions you have. Right? So gently naming it and saying, I see that you may not be totally sure. And I would love for you to be sure. So I’m inviting you to share your concerns.


Lara Schmoisman  21:02  

That’s, that’s an incredible tip. Something that I learned also is that when I go into an negotiation, I know my emotions. And somehow we believe that we know that the other person, like you said before there is a conflict. That’s why we’re trying to negotiate. So we think that we know that the other person’s emotions, that’s why I love to have these conversations in front of a camera, or having coffee or whatever, just because it tells you that maybe you were wrong, and the other person come up from a different place and has an indifferent perspective of what something that happened. So you need to be open in a negotiation, to hear the other side. But to really listen.


Alexandra Carter  21:47  

Yes, listening, I have to tell you, I don’t it might be an exaggeration to say it’s 90% of negotiation success. But that’s not much of an exaggeration. Listening is everything. And so often, if you were to take a moment, those of you who are listening, and think about the last negotiation, you had that something went wrong, right? Or went off the rails, a lot of times, we’re assuming something about that, right? We’re, we’re assuming something about the other person, or they’re assuming something about us. And a lot of these problems could be solved by instead of coming in and saying, Why did you mark up the document that way? Leading with a question and saying, you know, tell me more about your concerns, I want to hear from you about what’s most important to you what you need. And when we lead with those open questions, then people can tell us who they are and where they are. And when we know that, then we can rescue ourselves from making assumptions, and we can meet that other person where they are. And in doing that, we’re also modeling for them so that they may start to ask us questions to really understand who we are. And it’s that understanding that keeps negotiations going really strong. It actually, if you are a person who asks good questions in negotiation, do you know that you will have better relationships, but you will also make more money? That’s what the research tells us. It is all about staying curious and open, and really understanding and listening to the other person.


Lara Schmoisman  23:30  

Before we go. Alex, I have one more question. Because negotiation, it’s a tough word, but it’s also an emotional moment. So we cannot expect that after a negotiation or renegotiation, the relationship wants change. We need to be prepared for that.


Alexandra Carter  23:53  

You know, that’s really interesting. I’m thinking to myself now, is it always true that a relationship changes after negotiation, and you know, where I’m going to go? I’m going to take us back to the kayak, okay, because when you think about you’re steering a kayak, and you’re steering with the water, right? The water is doing its own thing. There’s, there’s wind, there’s waves, and I almost think of the water as being the other person, right? And we’re kind of together, navigating, and going in all sorts of directions. As human beings, we are constantly changing ourselves. We’re evolving. We’re growing. We’re learning more about ourselves as we learn more about each other. And so I think it’s likely right, that negotiation may help us to change. What I want people to imagine is, what would it look like if it changed for the better? What would it look like if you were able to express something that was important to you? And as a result, that other person said, You No, I understand Lera a little bit better now. Yeah, I see where she’s coming from, maybe I can’t meet all of her needs now. But I’ve grown in my respect for her, I really admired the way she handled that conversation, I feel like I understand her more fully, you know, conflict, the word simply means to strike together, it means two things coming together, maybe they collide, maybe they touch. And you can come together and be changed for good. You know, when I think about the negotiations I’ve had with family members, sometimes our relationship comes out, and it’s stronger. Because we’ve really been honest with each other in a way that brings us closer together, instead of this false closeness, where there’s all this stuff under the surface, I’m just not talking.


Lara Schmoisman  25:51  

Absolutely. And that’s another label war, that change, change can be very positive. Yeah. And like negotiation. So there are some, we need to change our internal dictionary, and make sure that negotiation is not only about money, and it could be positive. And it’s something that if you need to negotiate is better, because it’s there, there is a conflict that take me to your attention. And then the change can be positive or negative, but there will be a change, and you need to be prepared for it in the moment that you start negotiating.


Alexandra Carter  26:29  

Yes. And the last thing I’m going to say is, even if you come together, and you don’t have a successful resolution to the negotiation, I would argue that that’s not all negative. If I’m an entrepreneur, and I’m negotiating with a client, and we realize that we are not aligned, that’s actually really helpful information, because it tells me that maybe this client is meant to work with somebody else. And I’m meant to work with somebody else. And that might be the best thing for both of us. And so I could simply end that by saying, I truly wish you well, if there’s somebody I can refer you to who might meet your needs better. I’m happy to do that. And if you know, anybody who meets, you know, who might be a good match for me, let me know, right? So


Lara Schmoisman  27:19  

absolutely. I’m always when I found someone that I’m not a good fit, or I don’t feel like our relationship is there, I say, I’m happy to refer someone else. Or maybe you should be looking into that.


Alexandra Carter  27:32  

Yes. It’s about the relationship, you know, life is long. And even people where maybe we don’t line up right now. I always think about, you know, 1020 years in the future, we never know where our kayak is gonna go. And so I really tried to treat everybody collaboratively and simply to say, if our Venn diagrams don’t line up, at this moment, I wish you well, and let’s stay in touch.


Lara Schmoisman  27:59  

Absolutely. But also, there is another part that is when there is a relationship, and this negotiation didn’t work out. And there is a break, because many times there is a break mostly in commercial relationships. As much as you wish them well. There is boundaries that you need to keep in place.


Alexandra Carter  28:19  

Yeah, yeah. And negotiation for boundaries is a huge one, you know, and this is, I think it was Brene. Brown, who said that boundaries are the way we express love for ourselves. And I couldn’t agree more, actually, I would amend that to say that boundaries are a loving thing for you. And that other person, right? When I say, here are the hours that I’m available to work, here’s the scope of the contract and what falls within it, and what’s outside it, what I’m doing is actually protecting myself and to you. Because when I protect my energy and my piece, that means I’m going to show up as the best person I can for you. And it also means that you’re going to get the best version of me, not the burnt out irritable version of me. So boundaries are a wonderful thing, that it’s actually one of the main things I’m focusing on as a woman entrepreneur for 22.


Lara Schmoisman  29:15  

On one when a relationship ends on, then you need to renegotiate another kind of relationship. Yeah, if like, if you have a contract, and that contract ends and that person still need something for you, it doesn’t mean that you have to do it for free, or no. And it it means, hey, that our contract ended. And so if you want something done, we can put another scope of work. Absolutely. That’s the only thing that doesn’t mean if the other person tells you I don’t want it, that’s fine. There is no negotiation.


Alexandra Carter  29:47  

Yeah. Well, and that’s, you know, they might be feeling you out, like Could I get some free work on top of and I’ve had people asked me that before our contract ends and they say, Oh, I’ve got just five quick question. Students for you, right? It’s always quick, quick questions for you. And I’ve responded back saying these are incredible questions. And to do them justice, right for me to do a good job for you, we would need to re up the contract. So I could really focus on this work. So let me know what you’d like to do here. Yeah.


Lara Schmoisman  30:19  

Me many times I’ve done if I’m wrong with it, but I feel like, oh, it would have been so easy for her to answer my five questions. And for her so easy to answer while she’s taking more time to do another contract. She’s trying to take advantage of me.


Alexandra Carter  30:35  

Yeah, and and here’s the thing, right? If somebody has that reaction, that lets me know that they may have a rough time with boundaries and Lera. Here’s what I’m going to tell you. People who push your boundaries are often people who allow others to push theirs. They, they their boundaries collapse. And so they pass that on to you. So I actually normally have a lot of compassion for that person. Most of the time, when I do that, when I set a cordial limit, and say, This is really great. I might even do something like, you know, this one question has a quick answer, which is x for the rest of these, let’s re up so I can give you the attention you deserve. Most people say, absolutely send me a contract. Because most people that I’m in business with understand boundaries, they have boundaries themselves. And it’s part of how we have a healthy relationship. If somebody can’t respond positively to that, that lets me know that they struggle with this topic. And so we’re not going to be a good match anyway, doesn’t make me upset. I just, you know, wish them the best. Yes,


Lara Schmoisman  31:46  

just let it go. For you guys out they are there are a lot of situations that have been seen lately, and I’ve been here about it. The ghosting that people when they don’t want to confront or negotiate the situation, or even accept them, Miss miscommunications. I’m not wanting to say wrongdoings, because sometimes it’s about miscommunication. that the answer is to get aggressive. Try to get out of the relationship. And that’s, again, it’s not black and white is not about not liking the pink is about okay, maybe we don’t like the thing anymore. And our relationship is not gonna be that we are not best friends anymore. But then even you need to negotiate that termination of the relationship.


Alexandra Carter  32:42  

Yes, absolutely. I mean, if you’re going to have any kind of ongoing relationship with that person, I mean, an obvious example, to me seems like a divorce, right? Maybe a business divorce or a personal divorce. You know, it might be that you’re renegotiating your relationship, but you still have children, or you still have a business. And you have to figure that out. And there is still a loving collaborative way to say, I want the best for you. I also want the best for our kids or our company. Let’s sit down together and figure out how we’re going to work this out in the new phase of our relationship.


Lara Schmoisman  33:19  

Before we go on now, I promised that I like gonna let you go. Because I love this conversation is

 what are the things that they really affect? in a negative way? A negotiation?


Alexandra Carter  33:33  

Okay, I’ll just give you one. Because there are many things that the negotiation, but you talked before about emotions, and emotions in general are a great thing. Emotions help us make decisions. Emotions, help us understand ourselves better. So we don’t need to be afraid of them, we should use them. But there are two emotions that blow up negotiations more than any other. And I call them the big two. The big two are fear and guilt, fear and guilt when somebody else is losing their cool, they are irritated, they’re angry, they’re upset, they’re yelling at you, I want you to stop and ask yourself, what might they be afraid of? And what might they be feeling guilty for? And the same is true, frankly, Lera of us. The times when I lose my pool, you know, and I’ve done it at home, I can recall early on in the pandemic, my daughter was on her screens like all the time and I was working like crazy, trying to reschedule my book tour and everything else. And one day I saw her just zoned out on her Chromebook. And I almost went over there. I just felt this rage. I wanted to slam it shut and say you’re done. Why was I so angry? I had fear in that moment. I thought to myself oh my gosh, she is on her screens too much? What if she doesn’t read? What if she’s never good in school after this? What if her future is ruined? And I was also feeling guilt because I thought to myself, if I were a better mom, if I didn’t have to work so much, I could be setting better limits on the Chromebook. So but instead of freaking out on her, I was really angry. I took some time to myself, and I thought, Okay, what am I feeling? I’m feeling fear and guilt. Okay? What is the problem I really want to solve here. I don’t want the screen time, what do I want? And I thought to myself, what I actually really wanted was to make time for reading readings really important to me. So instead of going over there and blowing up and shutting the laptop, I went over at a different time. And I said, let’s talk about how we can work in more time for reading, right? Because I’m concerned about that. That’s my big priority. How can we negotiate that? And we did. So the next time something blows up, I want you to think about the big two, fear and guilt. Might you be feeling one of those? Or might the other person be feeling one of those. And once you understand that, it’s going to give you a new perspective, that’s going to help you de escalate the situation, both for them and for you.


Lara Schmoisman  36:14  

Amazing. Thank you so much, Alex, I enjoy having you having coffee with me so much.


Alexandra Carter  36:22  

I love coffee, and I love chatting about negotiation with friends. Lera. So this was perfect. Thank you for having me.


Lara Schmoisman  36:29  

Awesome. And so you guys, think about negotiating in a different point of view. This time, let’s rethink what we know about negotiations. And remember, negotiations are always positive. But start with yourself. And I’ll see you next week for more coffee number five



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